Unlocking Confidence and Communication in Men | David Meessen

Hello everyone, welcome back to the Alchemist Library podcast. Today on the show we have David Mason. David has helped hundreds of men overcome confidence issues, improve communication and have better relationships. I wanna have David on because I'm seeing more and more stuff on this loneliness epidemic that particularly young men are facing, and I wanna have a talk with somebody who is in the thick of it and is speaking with young men and see what some of the things were that he thinks would help those people, and in this episode we discuss various aspects of dating and relationships. But what's so interesting about it is all the stuff that we talk about can be applied to a number of different things, and I'm excited for you guys to get into this one today. So I'll leave you at that and catch you guys inside Peace.

Are you doing this work to facilitate growth?

or to become famous. Which is more important? Getting and letting go. ["dating and Letting Go"]. David, thank you so much for being here, excited to have you. Thank you, mom. So, for the people who consume your content, what's one piece of advice or one concept that you really wish to drill into people's brains Like? What's that one thing that you really wish people understand, understanding?

that you can meet any psychological need you have, independent of any particular person. Most men chase one particular individual, and I think it's perfectly fine to chase the outcome of a relationship for sure that's fine but not one particular person. So many men suffer because I think they found the one. The concept of the one is absolutely toxic. I help men find the right one, but there's not just one right one, there's multiple. For you, this planet has a lot of beautiful people and if it shouldn't work out with one person, that's absolutely fine. Now, if we create options for ourselves and we choose that person from a variety of different options, the probability that we'll have compatibility with that person is a lot higher.

But running after one person creates so much misery. Men are heartbroken, men kill themselves. So would these women have their own side of the suffering? Pardon me their own story of suffering. 100% for sure. But there's a lot of untold suffering that men go through, a lot of which could just be resolved with understanding that we live in a world of abundance. Now, that doesn't mean that if you're in a relationship and you have conflict, you drop that instantaneously, this first sign of conflict, and you immediately break up. That's not what I'm saying. But if the relationship should work out, or if she rejects you, if she doesn't want you, it's perfectly fine, just move on. There's more options. If men truly understood that, at a cognitive level as well as at an experiential level, by going out there and actually meeting people online and in person both, the world will be a much better place. There'll be a lot less suffering.

So focusing. It's okay to chase If you're chasing an outcome, not a specific individual. Exactly, that's a good way to put it. It's fascinating. I know you quickly mentioned it, but one of the reasons I want to have you on today is because there seems to be this epidemic of loneliness and single guys that are struggling. I'm sure you get a ton of DMs from people. What are the most common questions that you get from people?

The number one question is how do I get my ex back. It's the number one and that's why I made a video with Fernanda about it yesterday, because there are so many men who say there's a lot of questions, but that is by far the number one question how do I get my ex back? And you gotta understand that you're not supposed to, you're not supposed to get your ex back. Are there some few cases in which it can make sense to get your ex back? Absolutely 1%, 2%, 4% of the time I don't know whatever percentage it is. For 95%, almost all men should just by default assume no, I'm not supposed to get her back.

And if it didn't work it's for one of two reasons Either I made mistakes in my communication I need to prove my communication mistakes or, which is much better to assume, or at least in addition to understand that there was a lack of compatibility. Either our values weren't aligned with the same with me and my ex-wife she wasn't a bad person, me neither it's just our values and our personalities weren't aligned and there was a complete mismatch. And if the relationship is structurally broken because of a lack of compatibility, it doesn't matter how much couple therapy you're gonna do, it's always gonna crash in the end.

It's such an interesting concept because I think for a lot of people who don't like going out and drinking and going to bars, going to clubs, I feel like people really struggle to meet new people if they aren't engaging in those behaviors. And because it goes back to the compatibility thing, like even if you do meet that girl at the bar and she's a party girl and you're far from it, it's just the compatibility is not there. It's an interesting question in terms of how do you meet people that are compatible to you? Yeah, first of all, you need to meet a lot.

Now not doesn't mean you have to go on hundreds of dates, but you need to meet a lot more. It requires a lot more volume than people initially anticipated. So most men think they can just go out and jump into a relationship with the next best lady, but that usually doesn't work. So you either create options through online dating, which is dating apps or Instagram primarily, and you learn to use the same approach through women in person, during the day and everyday scenarios and at night. Then you create a lot of. You only approach the ones you're really interested in. So then you have, like, physically, it's the first thing you can evaluate before you've spoken to them Cool, that's checked. Then you get to know them, and then there's it's like a funnel, right. The more you get to know them, the fewer amount of people is actually gonna make it to the bottom of the funnel. In other words, people who you're actually compatible with you screen for compatibility and then the ones who make it out in the end cool, right Now. Then there's this attraction call, where you learn to create attraction, and then the one where you learn to create attraction connection, which is absolutely important. But we need a lot more volume, because you just need.

As a man, if you wanna have a high quality relationship, you should have at least a date a week. You do that for X amount of months can be one, can be seven, can be a year, can be three, and then you find a relationship. But you need choice. Depends on what your standard is. But if you wanna have a really, really great relationship where your values are aligned, you have real compatibility in terms of personality, you really physically attracted to each other. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it's really awesome and you're excited. Yeah, you need some choice.

To get to that volume, though, of one date a week, or whatever it may be, to find that person, you definitely have to learn that art of getting over your fear of approaching people in public. Yeah, that's a difficult one for people. What have you learned about the world of cold approach?

First of all, we have to understand that it's the most normal thing in the world, for some reason, because we're all engaging with each other through screens, which is beautiful. Our dating is amazing. You get to touch your phone and a beautiful woman appears once to get to know you. It's amazing, but our great great grandfathers, all of our ancestors, they cold approached each other. If you think about it, they started a conversation with a stranger. Now we can make an argument yeah, they were all part of the social circle at some point. Yeah, fine, but still one person had to actually go and talk to the lady and risk getting rejected and you might even risk getting unalived by other tribal members back in the day. That's where approaching anxiety. So first of all, you have to understand it's the most normal thing Getting to know people approaching each other in a respectful, kind way. Now, there's strategy behind that and I'm very happy to talk about some very, very practical tips here for people in a minute. But first of all, it's the most normal thing in the world. Then you have to understand the fact that you have approaching anxiety and everybody who's not a sociopath or a psychopath has approaching anxiety everybody. It's the most normal thing. Now you could train yourself to where you don't have it anymore, or where it's 0.5% out of 100% or it's 10% out of 100%. Right, but it's the most normal thing. The reason you have it is because how we grew up in tribes and if you were to approach somebody in the tribe the tribal members might kill you. So it's ingrained in we're all ancestors of men who were afraid of the lion. So fear is not the enemy If you manage it, if you don't let it dominate your thinking. Now, if you let fear dominate your thinking and you're worried what X is going to say? Or what is John going to say? Most men are so worried about the opinion of another man who's their friend Not really their friend, but who's kind of like a friend who's going to judge them. I had a conversation with a client about that. With a client yesterday. I was saying that you're worried about somebody's opinion who's part of your social circle, who wouldn't judge you for putting yourself out there anyway if he was a real friend. Most men are worried about the opinion of other men who aren't even their friends. So that's one. But approaching anxiety is the most normal thing.

There's two ways to overcome it Shock therapy well, there's more, but like really shock therapy or progressively desensitizing yourself. Shock therapy, jumping into the deep end works for some people. What works for almost everybody is progressively desensitizing yourself. Now, most people. If you were to tell them okay, you see this lady during the day or at a bar at night, and you simply, let's say, during the day, you see her in Whole Foods, she's standing in front of the protein bar section. Walk over to her and say, excuse me, two seconds. I saw you and you have fantastic posture. I really like your hair. You give her some tailored compliment. My name is David had to come meet you. Most men would shit themselves. They wouldn't be able to do that, and I wasn't able to do that either in the beginning, because we have so much approach to anxiety.

We have all these excuses in our head.

Bless you, thank you. What is that person going to think? What if I get rejected? What is she going to think about me? We have all these worries and thoughts in our head and it's the most normal thing, but we have to identify the enemy first. It is just AA. It is just approach anxiety.

There's nothing wrong with me. It is me living a life of being a calibrated human. I want to be a functioning member of society. I don't want to do something that's too far outside of what the tribe considers to be okay. So first of all understand that, but then understand there's no truth behind it. If I'm a respectful guy and I'm nice and I respect her boundaries, and if she's not interested in me, I leave her alone instantaneously, then I absolutely have the right to introduce myself to fellow members of the human species. It is absolutely necessary for us to connect more now than ever. So that would be too challenging to have this direct approach. In direct approach, in other words, you drop a compliment of the opening of the conversation.

What most people can do is you have a pyramid, something that I teach clients as well. You start by simply walking around Some people, it's even too much to just make eye contact in public. Walk around, just hold a little bit of eye contact Cool. Next level you walk by and you just say hi and you keep walking. Then the next one could be you walk up to somebody and say excuse me a second, it could be a man or a woman, no matter how attractive, even there's variation. Excuse me, how do I get the Starbucks? Fantastic, sorry, would you be able to tell me at the time? Great. Then you ask for directions and then you just have a normal conversation. Oh yeah, by the way, did you hear what happened in the news? Blah, blah, blah. Then talk about that for 30 seconds. Cool, you've done that. Then you walk up to somebody, have a conversation, talk about Starbucks. Then you say oh, by the way, are you on Instagram? Cool, no worries, you exchange. Then there's more layers in between that you can build. Anybody can build their own pyramid. But the most important thing is, every step is more slightly more difficult than the next.

We, as human beings, we live in three different zones. There's the comfort zone, which we all know when we do the things. We already know how to do, what we're competent, and thereby we feel confident. Then there's things if we push ourselves outside of them. We do something that's a bit more difficult. Then we get into the zone of growth or challenge where we do something whoo, that's a little bit nervous, a little bit challenged, but I'm still able to perform. And then when we do something that's even more difficult, we get into the zone of overwhelm, where there's so much cortisol adrenaline in our brain it's subjectively too much. The internal pressure plus extra it's really only extra internal pressure is so high that we can't perform anymore. Now we don't want to go into the zone of overwhelm because we can't perform Every now and then. Dipping into that is a sign that we're doing the right things, that we're pushing ourselves. But most of the time we want to be in the zone of growth and we get there.

By doing putting one foot in front of the other, we can learn that it's not that difficult. But the thing is, as men we can't think ourselves into what our brain would feel like if we had done step one, two, three of this progressive desensitization pyramid. By doing that, you change your brain. By asking 20 attractive women for directions, as stupid as it sounds, you change your brain. By then having a conversation that's not even intimate or romantic. You change your brain by then asking for the Instagram. You are no longer the same person because neurologically, you've imprinted a reference experience upon yourself, and then the step of saying oh, excuse me, these seconds are actually really cute doesn't seem so threatening anymore. But we have to go through the previous steps. We can't think ourselves into what it would be like if we had already done it. We actually have to go through it and then it's the most beautiful experience ever.

I love online dating. 60% to 70% of my clients find their partner for online dating. But the experience of being able to walk up to somebody, to a lady in her whole foods during the day, at night in a bar, not being drunk, completely sober, not having inhaled any type of drug whatsoever, and being able to start a conversation, exchange iMessage or Instagram and then go on a date that's where you really see the matrix, where you step out and you see, holy moly, most people. They are so caught in a trance. I could have done this all along. There's women everywhere and if I'm just a nicer, respectful guy and I do it the right way, and yeah, there's techniques and I'm happy to go into that a little bit more if you have questions around that. But if I do it the right way, I can create so many options for myself.

And the reason options matter is not to become a player or a pickup artist or some of that. It's not about that. But if you want to have a high quality relationship, you can't come from fear. Most men they are so afraid of losing the lady that they're with because they never chose her from a variety of options. This story is I've seen and I'm sure you've seen it as well how men bend over backwards. They don't communicate their needs. That's why they end up feeling a shell of themselves. I had that too and then your self-esteem gets diminished heavily. Now most men they're actually slaves in the relationship. Some turn into the tyrant and they treat women like shit. That's not the aim of the game either. But in order to fully communicate your needs, I believe you must have chosen her from some options and learning to meet women in real life is an absolutely powerful tool.

Men resist it. Men do everything to not do it. They try to just find some weasley way around it. Yeah, but can I not just date this lady from work? No, you want to get fired. Do you want to get fired? Well, I don't care about my job, fine, but if you're a man, I've spoken to men who are working in really high, like some of the big consulting companies, some big tech companies, who are then hitting on women at work. Yeah, but this other person has done it. There's a lot of possibilities. It's about probabilities. Yes, of course, you can get away with dating somebody at work, but you might also get fired. Is it really worth it? The only reason you'd consider dating somebody from the workplace is because you don't know how to approach somebody in person and how to use online dating and Instagram.

And there's such a craving for that in person. There's so few people actually going up to girls in a Starbucks and saying hello and introducing themselves that it just separates you immediately. If you're the guy who's comfortable doing that, your options just they get so much larger because there's a craving for it and that in person connection is special.

but so few people are doing it, so A little bit, yeah, in college.

I'm not a big drinker, so I made it a point to when I was on Starbucks on campus or in the library or whatever, to talk to girls, and it works.

Isn't it amazing? How good does it feel when you do it and you actually get the number. Remember the first times you did it. Wasn't it a eureka moment?

And it's like when you're in person, the veil of the internet gets dropped so much as well. We have these preconceived perceptions based on somebody's social media profile or whatever it may be. So getting that in person it changes things. It just puts you so much farther ahead than people.

Nobody does it. The competition is so low. And when I say nobody, 99% of people don't do it. 99% of men are not able to approach somebody, no matter what they tell themselves Around. Two years ago I was speaking to Dubai Radio and I was saying to the lady most men think they go to two things they think they go to fighting and they think they go to talk to women. And I'm not a professional fighter by any stretch of the imagination, but I've trained karate for six years so I got some experience. Put a pair of bucks and gloves on the average guy. Look at how he's going to get his ass whooped.

Ask any man 99% of men to do an approach during the day or at night, sober. They will not be able to do it. Or they walk over there and they ask her a bunch of interview-style questions. They have a very logical conversation. They don't know how to create a fun, playful man-to-woman conversation. They think, oh, my hair, this, my accolades, this. They start bragging with their watches.

It is horrendous. It is not their fault because nobody's taught them, but it's a skill set that we're going to dedicate ourselves to learning, because how on earth are we going to be able to teach our sons that someday as men. How on earth are we going to be able to authentically Teach dating and relationship advice for our children if we haven't actually gone through it? Because this shit you can't read from books. Yes, this information great, absolutely. But there are so many micro situations where, if you haven't gone through them, you just don't know what you're talking about In terms of, because there's so much growth that happens.

People say, well, I need to grow and work on myself first. You work on yourself by putting yourself out there. Dating is one of the single best ways to work on yourself. You walk up in your approach to somebody. You're going to face all the fears and insecurities you have. Meditation is amazing. I'm a huge fan of it. Introspection therapy it's all amazing. Men should do it, but one of the best ways to work on yourself is to go meet women in person online dating as well. Work on your communication skills, work on your confidence, study the dynamics of traction. It is one of the single best ways to work on yourself.

There's this quote. It's from Samurai Mimodo Musashi and it's when you know the way broadly, you see the way in all things and what I'm hearing from you right now and it's just like all these things that you're saying, it applies to everything. I'm seeing the similarities, from podcasting to starting a business.

What similarities are you doing?

What's the thing dating? I really try to make the conversations get away from interview style because it's unnatural. So getting that natural flow of communication down and really just being comfortable with the moment, listening All those things translate so well. Making conversations fun versus making them just the same shit that everyone else asks, like doing these little things.

I thought from the way I felt subjectively, that you were doing a really good job with that. Even just the way you came in, you brought comfort right. In dating there's a principle called assuming comfort, assuming familiarity, where you want to talk to her as if she was already a girlfriend.

And the way you started the conversation, you brought a lot of comfort. I immediately I feel comfortable doing this no matter what, but I still am very aware to the differences. I still felt very comfortable because you brought a degree of comfort. I've seen it with other interviewers and they may still be brilliant at what they do in terms of the questions, but they don't bring the same degree of emotional comfort. So by you bringing that comfort, that has a great impact. So I think you're living that for sure.

I appreciate that so much, and one thing I wanted to ask you about is one of the things that got me comfortable enough to start talking to girls, just totally sober talking to a girl at a library, talking to the girl in Starbucks, whatever it may be. I listened to this podcast with Charlie Hooper, who runs Charisma on Command, this YouTube channel, and one thing he said in the podcast was there are so few people who study Charisma that by just knowing the quick basics of Charisma and being charismatic that you just separate yourself so much more. And there were just a few fundamental aspects that bringing it into conversation just transform the way that you communicate. And I'm sure I wanted to get into a few of the techniques for that exact reason, because when you know some of these little things, it really takes that burden off of you.

Yeah. So what are some of those techniques when it comes to quick, wins that men can apply instantaneously to get better in conversation, sure, so one of the fast ones is a conversational technique. I don't even know where it had its origin, whether it was stand up comedy or I don't know where it came from, but it's a short and very powerful technique.

It's called yes and most men.

When they're being teased, either by a lady or by another man, they get logical and they defend themselves. It's like you'd say something about my ginger hair and I'm like no, you know what? We do have souls. Yeah and no. Instead, what I might want to say is I either want to accept and amplify the premise, I want to agree and exaggerate, I want to misinterpret, or I just want to say yes, yes, and you know how many times I've cried myself to sleep wishing that I actually dyed my hair black when I was 16. I could go, and then it's actually true that I did that because I was so insecure as a teenager, but then I might go and exaggerate it. Yes, and whatever the person says, you say yes and you flow with it. The beautiful thing is, you don't even have to know where the conversation takes you by the time you've said yes. You just allow yourself to flow with the most natural instinct that you have.

Most men that place a standard of perfection onto themselves as to what they're allowed to say in conversation. Remember, you're not giving a presentation at an Ivy League university here. It's a conversation. You're allowed to flow with whatever you want and you can come up with ways to make any story interesting, even if, by the time you've uttered the first sounds you don't even know where it's going. So any tease, anything. Somebody says yes and yes, and instead of no, actually, or yes, but yes, but is one of the most horrible things you can say, because nobody hears the yes, everybody just is primed to listen to what comes after the but.

So yes, and is a very, very powerful technique. They tell you yes, and ginger hair, it's very small. Yes, and oh yeah. Or you meet somebody who's older than you yes, do you want to adopt me? Or she says you're so old, yes, you want to call me daddy. Yes, and whatever, yes, and. And you drive the premise to such an extreme that you make fun of what they said in a kind way, in a playful way, in a loving way, but yes, and is really really powerful. What else do you have? Any like specific context, because then I can narrow it down a little bit more Any specific?

Let's talk about when you're just approaching a girl called for the first time, like you're out of Starbucks and you want to go up to talk to her, but the first thing that comes to your mind is I have no idea what to say.

Yeah. So the good thing is to have a little bit of structure. I'm not a fan of lines or pickup lines. Most of them are nonsense, but just have a set opener. The best openers are observational openers, where you make something up on the spot, but the second best, or a variation thereof because look in the big. You cannot expect yourself to free flow during a kickboxing fight and come up with new combinations if you haven't trained that a lot. So you actually have to have a couple of standard openers, ideally just one that you've uttered at home 50 times. At home, say this opener 50 or 100 times. You will not be able to say the opener when you have an attractive lady standing in front of you if you haven't said it at home 100 times. I mean you can, but the probability is very low. So, just as a standard opener, if you don't know what else to say, just say excuse me two seconds. I saw you. You're really cute, so I had to come and say hi, my name is David. What's your name? Simple, as it is not the opener, you can open with anything. Just use that. Steal this one. It worked. Now there's variations of excuse me two seconds. I saw you have amazing post-shadow commitment. Excuse me two seconds, I saw you you're.

The way you use makeup is better than most girls. I mean, like there's different types of openness. People are like what's your opener? It's not the opener, it doesn't matter. I mean, my friend, we've opened conversations. Where do you like sweet potatoes or like all kinds of stuff that you wouldn't even be able to imagine? Like the opener does not matter.

A woman has never gone into a relationship with a man because his opening line was so great. Equally, a woman has never not gone into a relationship with a man because he just had an average opening of the conversation. It's really what happens afterwards. So use that as a standard opener Then. One of the biggest mistakes that men make is they go into take remote, in other words, asking questions as opposed to making statements. Imagine somebody comes and talks to you that you don't know and they start asking you a bunch of questions. Imagine I okay, maybe we're gonna walk up to you in Starbucks, some random ginger, and I ask you two to three questions in a row. You're like who the fuck is that guy? He's like horrible kind of regret Impersonation here. Be like who is this?

guy.

Why is he asking me this question? What gives you the right to ask me these questions? Why, what no? So instead of what you want to do, you want to overshare. You have to assume the burden of the conversation. You have to carry the responsibility of offering yourself three, four or five times in a row, and then, obviously, if she's not interested, you leave her alone immediately. But you have to be willing to do 70, 80, 90% of the talking for the first couple of minutes until she starts investing. The way you do that is with playful assumptions.

A very, very easy hack is and people don't even know you can ask two questions in a row of the opening boom, she immediately loses interest, immediately, instantaneously. So whenever you catch yourself wanting to ask a question, just phrase it into an assumption. So instead of saying, hey, let's meet you, what do you do? What do you do for work? To couple of questions in a row? She's instantaneously bored. Instead of that, it's like you look like a lawyer. What do you do for work? Boom, even if it isn't true, it is way more emotionally engaging than just a random taking question.

So, assuming the burden of the conversation and then talking, then have to write down stories. This is not about pick up lines, but everybody has amazing stories. You have stories. Most men have stories that are so awesome that if they were to tell them they'd really be able to create a lot of traction. And we also have too high a standard for what constitutes a story. A story can be one sentence. If somebody asks me that's what you do for work, and then I can say I used to work for tech companies but then I realized I have a problem with authorities and I have my own business. That's a micro story but it's still a story and it's impactful because it's true and it displays something about my character.

Obviously, there's way more to it than that, because most coaches that I know they don't go into business because they wanna have a business. They just like coaching. That's immediate. As a coach, you're just like I'm just gonna coach all day. Then you realize, okay, if I don't build a business around it, then there will be no coaching. But most coaches that I know they're gonna coach them because they like helping people. They like that one-on-one or group coaching, whatever the format may be. They really enjoy that. But that's a micro story and we can write them down. We gotta give ourselves permission to overshare without being asked to. Now people see, people think oversharing is a bad thing. No, you want to overshare without being asked to. If she's not interested, you immediately leave her alone, respect her space 100%. But offer yourself and overshare. Those are just, even, just that. Obviously there's way more to that, but even just that would be so, so powerful.

It's getting people those hooking points right, like if a girl asks you where you're from and you just say New Jersey versus oh, I was born in California, moved to Florida for a while, lived in Colorado. Now I live in New Jersey. That gives them like five more hooking points that like to talk about versus just New Jersey.

Open up conversation on threats Exactly you open up way more conversational threats, and then so you should have something to talk about with almost every country not every country, but with most countries that you encounter. If I'm in the US, then I need to have something to say about every state. Okay, I would just learn something about every state.

A couple of facts, couple of random facts, and don't use the generic shit. Find something specific. Doesn't matter where she's from, if it's international. Have something to say about each country and that's a Google search the impactfulness of having a culturally relevant hook or a locally relevant hook. She's from this town in that state. Learn something about that state. But don't use the number one, two, three stereotypes, because that's what most guys are gonna say. Find something that's a little bit more specific to each state and then be a little bit provocative.

If you have some politically incorrect opinions, say about some state because you disagree with whatever is going on. Communicate your opinion Because, remember, if you're looking for compatibility, it's per. You're not supposed to talk about politics for half an hour on the date, but you can absolutely let your values be known and say well, if somebody opposes free speech, they can. You know they're not my kind of people and you can make a really provocative assumption and statement like that very, very early, because if you disagree on your fundamental values, there's no need for us to continue this conversation anyway and you can do that in a really nice way.

It goes back to authenticity, right, Like when you're just truly being yourself and you're able to like, maybe eliminate some options, but it's just gonna make the connection with the people who are aligned with you so much stronger.

Exactly, and it doesn't even eliminate options. It eliminates options for short-term hookups.

Exactly yes, but it doesn't eliminate options for high quality relationships in the long term. And, by the way, you know post-nurse clarity, it's much better if you actually like the person you're with after you came. It's much better Because you just want to not like that person. And that's the real test, right. That's when you really find out whether you actually like that person, Because we as men can tell ourselves all kinds of stories. But then the second is this physiological release. You realize, oh no, we're actually compatible. But you can find that out sooner rather than later by simply communicating some of those not politically correct opinions you already have.

Absolutely, and you mentioned quickly with post-nurse clarity. But I think a big issue for a lot of guys right now is porn, because it eliminates the, it makes it for an easy choice versus doing the more scary thing, which is actually talking to women in the real world.

Yeah, so I'm not a doctor. My family they work in the medical field in Germany. I'm not, but from what I understand, there's a heavy release of prolactin in your brain after you orgasm and that just makes you lethargic. Now the good thing is I think Andrew Huberman who talked about that. He says if you have sex with a lady, then that boosts, even if you have an orgasm. That boosts the testosterone by 80%. So sex is actually amazing. You could.

It's perfectly so this we have to differentiate between sex, sex with or without an orgasm, different impact, masturbation yourself and masturbation and orgasming, and then masturbation and watching porn. These are all different things. So I personally don't think that masturbation is that big a deal if one, if it's done, not too much right. But the really big thing that everybody should eliminate, or at least reduce, is porn. Porn should be a once a month type of occasion, or even less, ideally, if you just cut it out completely, cut it out completely.

Everybody has to know themselves a little bit whether they have a bit more of an addictive personality or not. But ideally cut it out or just make it okay. Once a month special occasion, awesome, cool, right, that's one. It's like alcohol ideally zero, why I don't drink ideally zero alcohol but or any other drug. But if you got to do it, do it once a month. You really shouldn't do it more than once a month.

If men drink alcohol more than once a month, it's because they have unmet needs for love, connection, variety, significance, growth. Like whatever right, whatever model of human needs you want to apply. There are some psychological needs that aren't being met, even if it's just the fact that they won't cough and it's in the moment to be able to go and approach the woman, which doesn't make sense. But going back to porn, porn is something that's absolutely cut out now. I think it's fine to masturbate a couple of times a week, it's no problem. But, for example, what I tell clients is don't masturbate at all for a long time because what drives us to take action is pain and pleasure.

Now there's a degree of anticipated pain, of rejection and a little bit of approach anxiety. But let me tell you something if you haven't jerked off, in a month or two you'll be way more motivated to go on, introduce yourself to female members of society, because there's biology that's gonna kick in. It's gonna drive you. You're like go now. You obviously gonna do that in a nice respectful way, but it drives that urgency. And if you're constantly doing this and your brain is full of prolactin and then you have bad habits on top of that, then you drink alcohol no wonder why people don't have energy that's the truth right there.

And I wanted to ask you about the red pill movement. You see this gaining a lot of stretch traction on the internet. I honestly like don't know how to define the red pill movement for people who don't know, but essentially it's like a very I don't know. How would you define it? I?

don't know. Yeah, I'm. So I'm not very ideological. I don't like to, and that's not because I don't believe that we don't have in-group biases as human beings. I think we absolutely do and it makes perfect sense. If people want to watch it, there's a brilliant Harvard lecture about claims of community by Michael Sandel that came out 14 years ago. Absolutely, really, really interesting things for people to check out. So I believe I personally believe the grief in group bias makes perfect sense, but I'm not too ideological so I don't want to like. I don't even know what it is like, how to properly define it. Obviously, I'm very aware of what's going on, but I wouldn't be able to give you the exact definition of it for me, the board.

I'm not here to talk bad about anybody by name. There's a lot of people in this space who do things I agree with. There's a lot of people who in the space who I disagree do. I believe that we offer the single best coaching program in the world because of the systems and the structure and the experience and the unique combination of teachers that I've had. Absolutely do I feel the need at all to talk bad about anybody else? Zero, I think anybody. There's a lot of people in the red pill movement who are doing amazing work. Do I agree with everything they're saying? No other people that I disagree with for sure. It's a nuanced conversation, right, it is not black and white. And what we need in our society more than ever especially you guys in the States, it's unbelievable, it's.

I believe the word is called bipartisanship. We need to come together and have respectful debates. We need to be able to separate the person from the issue. We can. It's so important because, yeah, we may disagree on certain things, but then let's debate it out. Let's not make the person an enemy now, patrick, but David just wrote a book about choosing enemies. There are some people absolutely are your enemies. We're gonna try to do you hard and you better be aware of them and you better know how to handle them. Absolutely for sure, but I think we need to come together and have conversations. So, coming full circle to the red pill conversation, there are things that I agree with, things that I disagree with, that I think it's best argued not based on the ideology, but based on the individual point.

Overall, I think anybody who's out there encouraging men to work on the communication skills, what can the body work on themselves, meet women, all that. That's a beautiful message. So I I have a lot of love for a lot of those people out there. Now are there some people who seem a bit but hurt, sure, but who am I the judge? I don't know, I'm not in the judgment game. I don't want to talk bad about anybody by name, and I think if we were to sit down with most people, we could find a lot of common ground, especially if, before we sit down with them, we do half an hour guided loving, kindness meditation. That would really help as well. Yeah, yeah, but if you have more detailed question about like specific ones, we're very happy to like go into that relation with the repel as well. But that's just like a generic answer.

I'm curious about meditation, because it's something that you mentioned twice in this episode already. How has meditation helped you, both with your work and personally?

yeah, give me one second, let me just so. The way for me is I started meditating when I was six years old. Very irregular, okay, I'm not a regular meditator at all. I for me sorry, I'm sorry, I'm not a regular meditator at all because I it's just not been my number one habit. I've meditated a lot throughout the years, but not very regularly, but it's one of the because my number one habit my non-negotiable has always been exercise. For me, it's always been exercise. I was training martial arts from an early age on. That's always been the number one habit.

But I'm my father made me meditate when I was 767 years old. Right, he's one of the most beautiful, loving people I know, one of the most intelligent people that I know he gave us. Imagine me and my brother out in the backyard playing and we're expecting dinner because our mother calls us over and he hands us three raisins each. He says this is your lunch meditate. And I was like, listen brav, as my UK clients would say, listen brav. So from an early age, my parents introduced me to the world of personal development and then I did loving kindness. Meditation is my father's meditate for years. Meditation is one of the single more powerful tools out there. Now my father, his number one habit has always been meditation.

For me it's always been excess, and there's only so much of a standard of rituals we can apply to ourselves before personal development and all the beautiful things that come along with it become a prison in and of themselves, because it's very easy to mentally masturbate. I haven't done all of my seven habits, I've only done four of them, so now I can't perform up to the nonsense. But you can do zero habits on a day and still be productive. Now, on a daily basis, you should have your routine of half an hour, an hour, of taking care of your mental and emotional state, because absolutely I'm a huge fan of that, because that stuff's just proven and it makes a difference. But you've got to pick what your number one habit is, and for some it's gonna be meditation, for them it's gonna be excellent, ideally both.

Meditation is so unbelievably powerful because it changes your brain structures. It changes who you are. I believe they've done studies where they found out that if you go from zero hours of meditation experience to 11 hours, which is something like 20 minutes a day, you can see neurological changes under a brain scan. It changes you at your core. Jack cornfield, who in my opinion is single best meditation teacher out there. They are the amazing ones, but for me, my personal favorite. He says what meditation does is it quiets the mind, it opens the heart and you return back to yourself and, neurologically speaking, it reduces anxiety massively.

It opens the heart, which means it makes you literally more joyful, dopamine increase, whatever and you return back to yourself. Is you become aware of what's going on within you? Because so many of us we don't know what's going on, so we're not aware of our needs. A lot of guys they may, they overthink them in their head, but they're not really in touch with their needs. So it really also gives you the ability. So when it changes you, not it doesn't make you a different person, but it changes your brain for the better.

That is one and you get choice, because most of us are so identified with any given thought that pops up in any moment. We believe where the thoughts are popping to our head. And meditation for the first time offers men and women a chance to separate themselves from the thoughts, because most of the thoughts we have are just repetitive. And when you realize, oh, now you can think of yourself as consciousness, you can use a metaphorical spiritual approach where you see yourself as the one who knows the space of loving awareness in which thoughts occur. And then you realize, oh, wow, most of the suffering I experience is because I believe thoughts that aren't real or that have no validity to them? Oh, because I suppose, as my class, what's the thought you believe that's making you suffer? If you don't feel good right now, it may have a physiological reason sleep, exercise, sunlight, social contact these are the first things I look at. But gotta take care of that. Do an hour strong workout, get some sunlight, hang out with friends, get sleep. But once that's taken care of, what's the thought you believe that's making you suffer? Obviously you need clarity. If you have a problem, we need progress, we need goals for working towards. It's a bit more complex but, in essence, if we don't feel good right now, there's a thought we believe that is making us suffer and the only thoughts we believe as only thoughts out of power over us are the ones we believe. So meditation gives us choice. You disassociate from disempowering thoughts and the same is true, and it's so powerful it's not necessary, for it's not necessary, but it's an incredibly powerful tool, especially in dating.

Who, what if she rejects me? Was she? Ah, and then you become aware what if she rejects me? And you see the thought and you're like, hey, hey, hey, there's worry, and Jack Hornfield always talks about naming it. Ah, fear, okay, I see you. Oh, anger, oh sadness, huge sadness, all right, okay, you too, you too, and you change the relationship you have with yourself. And the beautiful thing about Jack Hornfield is when you do a guided Google YouTube search Jack Hornfield, guided meditation is not just that he's been doing it for 30, 40, 50, 60 years or whatever, but it's the energy he says it with, because not just the energy but also the tone of voice has massive impact, because what shapes our mental and emotional state is not just the words, but it's also the tonality they're being said with. For example, if I have the thought, what if she rejects me and I? What if she rejects me and it's a really deep, heavy voice.

It's very over there. Now you make that Donald duck. Yet what if she rejects me?

hey, hey, hey and it sounds stupid but do that.

The next time you have a disempowering thought, an angry thought, a depressing thought, a fearful thought, whatever your favorite flavor of suffering is, say it in a comedic way and you don't even believe the thought anymore. You can have the same wording, the same copy, so to speak, in your head. If the tonality changes, the emotional impact is the same at all anymore. So what if she rejects me comes from Milton Erickson, goes to Tony Robbins. It's a really powerful tool to instantly take control of our mental and emotional state because, yes, confidence is context dependent and, for example, by clients and people that I help with free content, they become more confident as a result of developing competence. The more you learn the how to, how I get more days, how I create a matter of connection, how I text, by developing the how to, the components, you become confident.

Yes, that's true, but it's not complete, because confidence, as well as it being a context dependent Competence sorry, confidence being dependent on competence in a given context it is also a mental and emotional state that we can learn to turn on. Most men use alcohol. Well, you can use Tony Robbins, gunther Schmidt, one of Germany's best psychologists they talk about it Parents of focus, language patterns, physiology, and then you build intervention points in any of them. You have pattern interrupts in terms of your focus, your language patterns, your physiology, and then you can recreate your mental and emotional state and if people understand that the way they feel is so much more within their control than they initially thought, we can reduce so much suffering.

There's so much truth in that Absolutely powerful tool.

It will make you everybody not everybody, but most people. If they're unsure, I would argue. Do 20 hours of it over the next two months. If you don't like it, stop it. But do 20 hours. Do 20 minutes every second day for the next two months. If you have no benefit from it, stop it. It may be the most life changing thing. Why is it that there are billionaires like Ray Dalio who attribute subjectively so much of their success to that? Now you can make an argument that the guy is a genius and that he would have been successful no matter what. But if they subjectively say that this is such a powerful tool, how on earth can we mere peasants not take that advice into consideration?

There's so much truth in all that you just said. I even experienced it this morning, like you know. I texted you or emailed you at four in the morning and I was like yo can't sleep, have a bad headache, I think I'm going to have to cancel for tomorrow and I woke up at 8am so I got like three hours worth of sleep and I was just like I disassociated my sleep with my competence today.

And that was 100%.

I made it up. I was like sleep doesn't matter for me today, I'm just going to rip a coffee and get back in this game and just by doing that and having that thought process of I don't need sleep to perform optimally, it's so powerful and it's a trap that I fell into. The more I've learned about self improvement stuff sleep, diet, exercise you see all of the positive effects that that stuff can have on you. But it also can be pretty crippling at times when you don't when you don't have the environment to work optimally. So I just love this concept of like I don't need any of this shit to perform at a high level. I just have to be there, show up and I'll be able to play the game at a high level. That's just.

That mindset allows you to perform optimally. It's so much more subjective than we think it is. Yeah, absolutely. And then the other part of what you just said about exercise being like your core component, core habit that you really try to stick to, being in shape and exercising consistently. It makes all the things we talked about today throughout this episode so much easier. It is so much more easy to go and approach that girl when you're in good shape because you know that you're doing things other people aren't doing. It just the compounding effects of being in shape. I think it applies to everything and this in particular.

Yeah. So the being in shape thing 100%. Every man should get, should strive to get into as good a shape as humanly possible. That being said, you don't need to wait to be in good shape to do that either. So, yes, get into as great a shape as humanly possible, because you will feel great about yourself looking in the mirror. That's just a fact. It boosts testosterone internally, purely physiologically, and then the compounding effect of you looking at yourself and changing how you feel about yourself, knowing that you've done the hard thing, that you've earned it, absolutely. At the same time, if you're fat and you are absolutely charismatic, you can get an amazing girlfriend, no problem. It's true. It's just there's so much evidence for it. If you are charismatic, if you are carefree, if you understand the game, if you understand how to provide good emotions, you can be fat and you can get fantastic results. If it's actually true, now don't stay fat. Lose the fucking weight, absolutely. Lose it as soon as possible, and it's easy.

One of my friends is the best weight loss coach in all of Germany and I thought I knew a lot about sports. This guy genius. That just goes to show people think they have an expertise in an area they don't. I know more about sports and nutrition than I would say, easily 90% of people Easily. Now, when I talk to this guy, I realize I know nothing. It's unbelievable. And the same is true with dating. Everybody has an opinion on dating man. I have taught clients from 32 countries 31, 32 countries, hundreds of them from all around the world for six days a week for years. I do nothing else. The amount of data I have available through them and through personal experience, which is ridiculous. You just can't tell me shit on this. People have opinions. I'm like no nonsense. No nonsense Because I've been there. Every excuse they have I've had, and the same is true with him. So what I realized? Counter calories, 10,000 steps a day, like a lot of protein, which is 150 grams, 200 grams a day for most men, and then drink half a liter of water before every meal and then consume 400 grams of fruits or vegetables with every meal. You do that, you'll lose weight. Those are like some of the biggest levers in the 10 years. It goes deeper than that for sure, absolutely. But you just do that. But that just goes to show.

Success in anything is 80% psychology, 20% mindset. That's why coaching is important, because why is it that there are billionaires who are fat when all it takes is a caloric deficit? It doesn't require too much cognitive computing power to figure out what a caloric deficit is. Less input, more burden, that's it. Why is it that they are fat billionaires? Well, because psychology is often 80% of it, and 20% is bless you, thank you, and 20% is mechanics. And if we understand that, then yes, there are strategies and tactics about how to go about 20%. That makes all the difference.

If you do the wrong thing, we keep banging our head against the wall. We'll end up with a concussion. That's it. But the mindset, what I believe about myself, the things that throw me off kilter, having my emotions not be on point, that is ultimately what's going to deter us. Because if we have the right emotions, if our mindset is on point, we're going to change the approach, change the approach, change the approach until we eventually find something that works. But mindset is 80% of that. You've seen them with people who are super talented and intelligent and they just stop. Why? Because they have consciously or unconsciously helped beliefs. There are things that they don't know, that they don't know Blind spots, and that's what's on them and we can fix. Some people are really good at figuring things out by themselves. Meditation can help with that. Talking with friends, talking with therapists, coaches, taking more action. There's a lot of tools available, but we've got to make the decision and we're going to learn a natural state on a daily basis.

That's why I love coaching and it's something I want to implement more in my life, in a business context or whatever it may be. Just having a coach, having someone that you trust, that you can just have blind faith in. Like you see, a lot of people have success with very dogmatic approaches to, let's say, diet, for example, and I think the superpower of that is just like you eliminate the questioning and by having someone that you really trust, you eliminate the questioning and you just take the action. It makes taking that action so much easier because you have that person that you believe knows the answers. So then you can trust them and just do it. You don't have to have that questioning or that going back and forth, you just take the action.

Yeah, 100%. And then when you take actions, you get results. You get small wins, which reinforces the belief that it actually works. That belief then increases your potential. Tony Robbins has a beautiful chart about this. But actions small wins reinforces positive beliefs. You're more likely to take more action Exactly.

And so you mentioned about 60 to 70% of your clients meet their girlfriend or partner on dating apps. Dating apps are interesting. It's a very unnatural way of doing things. I'm curious what your thoughts are and what's some of the issues you see with dating apps.

So first let's address the natural part. There's a lot of things that are unnatural that are extraordinarily beneficial. Penicillin is extraordinarily unnatural and antibiotic is extraordinarily unnatural in a way, yet it saves hundreds of thousands of millions of lives. The way we're communicating right now is extraordinarily unnatural, yet I enjoy it and it's probably helpful to a lot of people. So, because my mother and I love her to death. She is my absolute hero. She's a nurse in Germany and she's so awesome. She lives in a small town in Germany. When we go for a walk there's regularly people who come up to us and say that's my favorite nurse. She loves it, so she's amazing.

But she always uses this natural argument. This is not natural, and the woman has been right with way more things than she's been wrong. So I was like the more I get older, I'm like yeah, I listen to my mother for a lot of things, but then this natural argument it just doesn't apply, there's no validity, it's a non-secretary, it's not natural. Therefore it isn't Okay. So that's one. Yes, it is unnatural, but that's not a problem in and of itself. Now, there are problems with it, for sure. But first of all, we have to understand dating apps are a tool. A knife is a tool. Social media is a tool. Social media can help you create a business. Social media can completely transform your life. Social media can start charities, connect people. It's a tool. It's how we use it.

I'm a huge fan of individual responsibility. Now there's a completely different discussion about policies at a macro level. I believe I'm not ideological. I believe in individual responsibility. First and foremost you. If you want it, you're going to get it. At the same time, we also in a society, kind of have to take care of people. So there's people who are disadvantaged. We can't just say, well, healthcare, you know, like in Germany we pay way too many taxes, but at least people have healthcare they don't have. They don't get a 300 or 100,000 dollars hospital bill if their child needs to go into intensive care. So there's a lot of beautiful things about the US.

I was like, like, so I think we got to talk about the point. So I'm a fan of talking to get to take care of people who are not, who are structurally disadvantaged. But above all, I believe in individual. So it depends who I'm talking to. I'm talking to policymakers or I'm talking to the individual. It's your responsibility, go do something. This is not to make somebody feel bad. The opposite, it's supposed to make you feel good. Responsibility equals freedom. It's our responsibility If dating apps are working for somebody, but not for me.

It's my responsibility, but how I use them. Dating apps are just a tool. It is how I use them. Social media doesn't give me a dopamine depletion. I do that when I scroll on Instagram or TikTok, when I'm taking a shit for half an hour a day. That depletes my dopamine because it's a short omit, because it is reward without effort, as Andrew Rubinman talks about. I do that to myself. The phone isn't doing that to me. So dating apps don't force me to swipe right 50 times a day and make myself look like an undesirable user on the platform. No, it's about how I use them and if I use them in the right way. 10, 15 minutes a day it's all it takes for one high quality day to week. But people and I'm happy to give like I'm gonna have to bounce in two minutes but people need to build a great profile, great pictures, social proof, status, lifestyle, get really good pictures or like get your clothing done right. Write a good bio, write a good description. Then maximum 10 to 15 swipes right per day. Use premium features, but not too many. So the way you use the and then split test, split test five different ones for two to three weeks see which one works best, and then you got to learn text.

Dating apps are a fantastic tool that can make you depressed, or that can be a tool. If you use them strategically. For 10, 15 minutes a day, you can get one high quality day a week. It's really true. Now. Some people are going to get four or five dates a week. Somebody is going to get two to four dates a month from it.

There's variants, of course, 100%, and everybody's standard is different. Right? The type of woman you'd like to be with or I'd like to be with and somebody else would like to be with is not the same. There's subjectivity to beauty and objectivity. It's both. So, objectively, people have a different standard, and that subjectivity is also real. Above all, don't blame anybody. It's like dating after this. They're just neglecting responsibility. It's a tool. Yes, learn to approach it in real life. It's much better than dating apps. At the same time, why not use it effectively? Send five cold DMs on Instagram every single day. It is a powerful tool if used in the right manner. If you just consume it passively and you have asked it and you're not sending them up properly, you're taking half ass approach and then you delete them because you get frustrated, then you get real, then you get horny again, then you have those pre-jerk swipes that are the quality that you really want to have. Yeah, if you're not using it in the right way, fine, but if you use it responsibly, it's a great tool.

So I know you have to go here, but I just wanted to ask you what is something, what's some fundamental things that we haven't discussed today, that you think are pretty fundamental?

So much. Do you want to make it a bit more specific, because there's a lot of directions in which that answer could go?

Where did your mind go when I say that what's?

the first thing that comes to mind.

Male friends, male friends, male friendships 100%. Men need more men in their lives friendships, 100%. We have a need for love and connection and that need can be met through a lady and, absolutely, in order for us to be fulfilled, we have to have an intimate relationship For us to be happy not to survive, but to be truly fulfilled and happy. We kind of need that, but most men do not have real friends in their lives and I have a video on Instagram where I outline steps. But you basically just got to put yourself in environments and for 2024, for the love of God, if there's one person who's listening to this, who makes it a goal for themselves to get two new best friends, their life quality will double. It's not a joke. How much fun is it if you just hang out with your friends. You play PlayStation, you're boxing, you're approaching girls together. It costs zero money, almost zero money, and you have the best time because you never know when you're buying. The times when you suffer the most, when you're the most anxious, most depressed, most angry, whatever your favorite flavor of suffering is is when you're alone. It's not when you're with people. If you ever had a problem in your life and then you hang out with your friends for like a whole day and you're like I'll manage it. That's because your brain chemistry changes. You have a release of testosterone and oxytocin in your brain when you hug friends and you spend time with high testosterone driven men. You need high quality male friendship. It is the most important thing. Yes, date 100%, but spend time with high quality male friendships. Does that person want to see me win, even if he had a bad date? Does he really want to see me win? Is he there for me when things are bad? Is there unwavering loyalty? Have a list of criteria as to when somebody makes it into your inner circle, but expand. You have to offer yourself to 20, 30 different men and then one of them is going to become your new best friend. You get to know each other a little bit. You go, hike up a mountain, you go out, you gradually build, you navigate the initial discomfort and then you can create so much happiness.

Most men are this close to so much more happiness. It's not that they have to change their entire lives. They're this close. If they were to just talk to the one dude in the gym more, okay. This guy at yoga, this guy at work. They have men that they could usually talk to. Or they just got to go to bachata, you got to go to salsa, join a martial arts gym. They are men, all these men. I see it, it doesn't matter how intelligent I either. I have guys in my program who are really young and ambitious and old and rich and anything in between. None of them, none of them. 99% of them, do not have enough high quality male friends. If you just all connect to each other, they are men waiting to meet you as your new best friend, your new best friends. They're out there, they're waiting for you Find them. It is the most important thing for your mental stability and happiness that we connect to one another. I would say that. So that was a very brilliant question. Thank you for asking the last one.

I think that's a beautiful way to end this conversation here. David, thank you so much for doing this. This was a lot of fun.

Thank you bro. Thank you so much.