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My guest today is Danny Miranda, the host of The Danny Miranda Podcast which is in the top 1% of podcasts in the world, the top 100 podcasts in entrepreneurship in the USA.
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Mr Danny Miranda. Thank you for being here today, brother.
Speaker 2:It is an absolute pleasure to join you and I'm so grateful for the opportunity for this nice studio for life. Thank you for Providing it.
Speaker 1:All Appreciate you man, I appreciate you as well. There's definitely a certain energy about you that you see online Like when we did the first episode and when you see it in your own podcast and it absolutely translates in real life. It's cool to to see that in reality.
Speaker 2:Is this the first time we're meeting in person. Yeah, wow, I didn't even realize that. But yeah, man, I'm just, I'm infused with, with love for life, and I hope people get that from reading the tweets and I hope people feel that from the podcast. But I get that time and time again when you meet me, it's like a good energy that's transmuted. I don't know what that is. It's love for life, I guess, and I, I want everyone to feel that way, do you think that's something you always had. No, I mean, I think I've always had it, yeah, in in me, but I also think that it's something that I've lost and found again and. That process of like finding it again is like where all the juice is, because life for so many of us takes us out of that place of love for life and joy. And I mean it's hard for most people to go through school and be like, yes, I love life, I'm love. I mean some people do, but so, yeah, it's been a journey, but Right now, just feeling very blessed to be alive, feeling in my purpose, feeling in my mission, feeling like how did God give me this Ability to be in this body and mind in this time?
Speaker 1:Let's go, dude, let's go awesome. And this podcasting World has been a journey and it's been coming on for years now for you right In my fourth year of podcast in the fourth year.
Speaker 2:Pretty incredible, incredible. It sounds like a lot. In some sense it's a lot of time and in some sense it's no time at all exactly if you think about I want to do this for 30, 40, 50 years, three years sounds like Haven't even started my rookie season. Yeah, you know, but when you think about three years, compared to most people it's a lot, it's a lot of time. It's a lot. It's an infinitely greater amount than zero Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:So what's that quote from the ball? I think he was on like a podcast. Well, it was like a walk where he says to build a career in anything, it takes 10 years.
Speaker 2:Dude, that quote is part of the reason why I do the podcast the way I do, because I know that if I wasn't willing to do it for 10 years, then why am I even starting?
Speaker 1:So, and it also gives perspective to the fact that, like this isn't something that you're not trying to be successful in day one, try to be successful in your 10 year, 11. This is a.
Speaker 2:It's a long journey and it's you get so much better, so cool to see yeah, and I like thinking about the idea of like what if the podcast that does the best is With someone who currently isn't even born? That's a weird thought and I think about that all the time yeah and I'm like, why not? Why isn't that the case if I'm doing it for 30 more years, 40 more years, 50 more years?
Speaker 1:Yep Person's 30 years old takes over the world and I'm interviewing them like let's go and the podcast is so new, unlike the grand scale of things like how many years has Rogan been doing it like 15 10 to 15 10 to 15 and it's like that's the longest example we have. I can't imagine, when we have people who, like you've been doing it from the age of 25 to 65, that the progress and the skill that that will provide you with is Insane yeah, and just the comfortability with the moment, yes, and really that's what podcasting has given me more than anything.
Speaker 2:It's like you are always perfect right now, in this moment, and the more and more you ease into that and appreciate that, the better you are in life, mm-hmm. And so this is so much deeper than podcasting, because if you can have a conversation or an interview with one of your heroes and sit down with them, it's like Now, any person I see on the street is like well, I just talked to my hero and I and I had an amazing time. So, like you, I have no preconceived notions. Neutrality, I I'm able to even enter that conversation even better because I'm so much more comfortable in my own skin.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was my biggest takeaway as well as like this art of listening and I don't I think so few of us actually Understand that or if you don't have the high stakes of a podcast to really bring you into that moment and Having that translate outside of the podcast. It wasn't something I initially thought, but in Seeing how much it's elevated my conversations, it's like the skill that is fundamental.
Speaker 2:What's an example for you that comes to mind of a moment where you had a conversation or you asked someone a question that you wouldn't have asked had you not done this.
Speaker 1:So I think Probably on a date it's probably a good example of it. Like we, you know, most people Wait until they the other person's finished telling their story so that they could tell their own story, blah, blah, blah. And it's such a thing that is, we're not focused on that person and being curious about that person, we're just trying to tell our own thing. So actually Employing that curiosity, I think just it makes you a magnet to people in a way, because people are so devoid of feeling connected to another human being.
Speaker 2:Because they're so, because we are so connected to our screens and to the online world and it's so amazing and I'm not here to dismiss the online world. That's why I have so much of what I have in terms of joy. But how do you balance it to? Yeah, and to me, podcasts are one of the best ways to balance it to, because you get to connect with another person who you can study online, but you have to be there in the moment and if you're not in there in the moment, you miss the whole thing, and it's such an ancient skill that's like being lost slowly but surely.
Speaker 1:Like this is what Like this is what this is what entertainment was for for a long, long time, and it's starting to go away in a way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's a great point. That storytelling is the most, it's the most lindy of all, of all the things that we do on a day-to-day. It's like how do we pass the time? We tell stories and we learn about other people's stories and what's so fascinating about doing this. As I'm sure you've understood, how many episodes have you done?
Speaker 1:This is 86 86, you were 32 the first time you came out.
Speaker 2:Wow, 32 and 86 unbelievable. What you learn from doing this 86 time is it's like everyone's got a story and if they don't have a story it's because you're not interested enough in it you're not asking the right questions to unlock it, and that, to me, has been so remarkable to understand and to build other people and realize and Help them see the beautiful story that they're unfolding in front of their life, whether it's a podcast guest or just a regular person on the street.
Speaker 1:So if you were going to go back and have a conversation with Danny Miranda on day one of podcasting, do you think it would be a lot like the stuff We've already talked about of these meta skills, or they'd be some tactical things as well that you'd like to tell them?
Speaker 2:I Think I Understood inherently that the learnings from the process were going to be greater than anything I could even imagine and that if I were to follow my own curiosity, joy and energy which was having conversations with people that would lead to learnings, things that I couldn't expect and places that I couldn't expect when I first started. So I guess the biggest thing that I Would tell myself if I was just getting started is like you don't even know how amazing life can be. You don't even know the richness of what you're about to experience, because when you learn Questions, when you learn how to to really be with someone, you get a whole new presence and joy for life that you didn't have before, and I had that to some extent, but it just got refined in a way that I think you can get refined with all of us, and I think over the next ten years it'll get refined within me even more so I think that's what I would tell myself.
Speaker 1:It's a meditation right. This, what we're doing right now, is meditation and, in a way, it's a purest form of meditation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that I say that all the time is. When I'm interviewing a guest, it's often like I'm holding the mirror up to them. So that they could see their own thoughts for 60 minutes or 90 minutes or two hours and that for some people is uncomfortable. For some people that's exciting. For some people I don't want to go there for some people. And people have all these different reactions to exploring their own thoughts. And what does it mean and where are we going? And I'll be like, let me take you, we're go, we're going to a greater level of awareness.
Speaker 1:You know a lot of people say your superpowers research. But I think that is your superpower because you know, in researching for other episodes I've listened to, you know most of us have listened to like the top, top 1.001 percent of podcasts. But in researching for other guests you end up seeing that other 99 percent and in trying to see what the difference between those two people are, a lot of the time it's making the conversations about themselves, like the host bringing everything, just using it as a sounding board to talk about their own ideas and they kind of they're not listening to the guests and everything is that Almost a mirror in reality, where they're waiting for the other person to finish so that they could tell their own story. And I think that encompasses what you've been able to do so well. Is not making it about you? It's not about you at all.
Speaker 2:Yeah and that's why I thought about changing the name of the podcast, because I'm like this is not reflective of what I've created. And I really appreciate what you said about the superpower being about the awareness and the connection with the guests rather than the research, because I think that is actually accurate and I think that's a subtle point that takes you to listen to the podcast or understanding that only comes from listening to the podcast and that it's so true. It's so true and Steph Smith said it in episode 339 I believe I was sitting right in that chair and she said the exact same thing and I felt very humbled when she did and I really appreciated because, at the end of the day, anyone could do research. But can anyone really connect with another human being? And I hope everyone can and I believe everyone can but the research is the gateway to get to that point, so that we can have enough trust with one another to know we're on the same team. And now let's go to the Promised Land.
Speaker 1:The research is a very interesting one because it was something that for me, it's been a process of Trying to find that middle ground. You know you do such extensive research and for me, when I've tried to do those deep dives inspired by you, I've almost been too robotic or too I've. I did too much research where it wasn't organic and I've always wanted to ask you that how you're able to stay in the moment and not let your research be crippling because it's so easily can be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think one thing that's really helpful is understanding that I don't have to get to all of it. Yeah and then I could always go to part two. I always I let the conversation develop and the interview develop however it's supposed to, yeah, and if that means talking about certain things, then we'll talk about them. If that means going into other areas that I haven't covered in my research, that's great. I figured out the balance by going to both extremes. So for episode 8 with Ed Latimore, I did zero research and. I felt at the end of the conversation like something was missing there, like I Feel like I didn't get the most out of him. He did a great job, but I feel like I was in a place of not giving enough. And then I, episode 61, ali Abdaal. That was the first time that I interviewed someone with over 1 million subscribers on YouTube, I believe, and like, or someone I really admired or like, looked up to a lot, and so because of that, I did so much research that I I wasn't present at all. And so this balance of like where's the middle ground, you know? And I found that after doing episode 61, I was like I did way too much or wasn't present enough with the research that I did. I think if I had done the same amount of research today with Ali that I did back then, I'd be able to Trust myself more a lot of this comes down to trusting yourself. Do you trust yourself enough to say the next thing? Do you trust yourself enough to give this person experience? If yes, then you don't need to cling to the research.
Speaker 1:But in that moment I didn't trust myself enough so what you're saying is, in that moment where you do all that research, we have a tendency or at least you do when you first getting started to want to stick to the script of these notes you have in front of you instead of just going with what feels natural is what you're saying.
Speaker 2:That's what that was my experience.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. I mean, I think it makes sense. I'm looking at these notes here in front of me. We haven't we haven't said one thing and it's been a great conversation. I don't think going on for like a few minutes now, but um I that presence is so important, I think, at the core of being a good podcaster. That is what it is, and I know you've experimented with meditation a lot. Do you think that that meditation has allowed you to be better in that realm?
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely, and I would replace the word podcaster. The presence allows me to be a great podcaster. I replace podcaster with person Right, Like you're absolutely right. Like the more present you are in a podcaster, the better it will be. That's just my experience and what I've felt. But also like, if you're a person and you're more present, you're going to have better experiences. And I love playing around with this myself. Like, all right, I'll be using my AirPods and I'll be out and about and then I'll take them out and then I'll respond to the world in a different way, In a. I'm not as quick, I'm not as able to connect with the person, and then I'm speaking to it. That's in front of me because I'm in a different world. I'm literally not as present. And that doesn't mean never put your AirPods on, go to a different world. But it's just interesting to me that my experiences are better when I'm actually more in life, and that's an obvious thing. But it's not actually applied by myself as much as I would like it to be, even though I know it's a truth.
Speaker 1:I think that you didn't say this exact piece of advice, but it plays into it in our first episode where you said everything that you do leads to the podcast and in seeing how unprecedented I am in certain aspects of your life, it makes you realize that it's a muscle and that the more the lack of more lack of presence you have, the easier it's going to be to zone out during a conversation like this, and it's so easy to fall into that mindless action with things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, it's so true, Like if everything you do outside the podcast impacts this moment, which then makes you think about like I love thinking about that in life Like every moment that you do impacts your life and like impacts the moment that you're in and the decisions you make. They actually matter to how you show up and you're saying so many of those decisions, without you even realizing it, Like I'm sure you can tell Well, you said it like your energy is different. Like why? Well, today I know it's different because I just went on a run at seven in the morning with great friends outside in nature. Four miles, life was great and you could feel that in this moment. I guarantee if we did the same exact podcast at the same time, but we did it without me running with friends outside in the morning, it would be different, the energy would be different in some way, and you could pick up on that. You could tell that. So I just love that idea of like it all builds on each other and the moment that you're in now is the result of the actions you took prior.
Speaker 1:And you know what you were saying. Like everything, there's an energy transfer. You can feel all the stuff that's happening going on in your head and often I fell into this trap at times and I know it happened to you in your episode with Peter Crone. Yes, where you want to impress somebody, you want them to be like dude, this guy's good at this, this guy's cool. I like him because you've consumed so much of their content, whatever it may be, and you fall into the trap. You fall into a trap of wanting to impress them and not just wanting to have the conversation. It changes things, it changes the dynamic a bit Absolutely and, yeah, I'm so happy you brought that up.
Speaker 2:It was one of the most pivotal realizations I made for myself, which was that when I had a guest on who was almost like a father figure, I was using that guest because they had impacted my life in such a way almost as my dad and getting validation from them was almost like my dad giving me validation. And that, to me, was an important realization, because now I can think about that. Next time I have somebody on who's a father figure or that I can look at and that's really impacted my life, I can look at that and be like, okay, I know my tendency is to look at them as a father figure, so how is that going to impact how I show up in this conversation? How can I get to a place of more than just a father figure, more neutrality with this person, so I can get the best?
Speaker 1:out of them. And then, when I read you talking about that, what happened to you was Peter Crone and seeing that you had Hermosion the same exact day. Yeah. That made my stomach drop, because I've been there where I've had a really bad podcast and then the self-doubt plays with you a little bit and you're like shit, am I not good at this? Is this not what I should be doing? And to go from two heavy hitters in that same day after the first one didn't go as you like, that is not easy.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So what was interesting is that the first one left me feeling better, even though it didn't go well. Really, because Peter Crone has this magical ability to get someone more comfortable in their own skin than they were before they started speaking to them. So even though I knew that I didn't show up with the appropriate energy to make the most out of this, I knew that at the end he made me feel better. We talked about my dad, we talked about how I can't remember I actually haven't gone back and listened to it since putting it out, because I'm like I don't want to go there again but I remember, just like feeling more at peace afterwards. And because I felt more at peace afterwards, I felt like when I was talking to Hormozzi, it was like just one of my friends and even though there was an element of Hormozzi being a father figure to me, it was less than if that was the first conversation I had that day or the first interview, it would have been different and it wouldn't have been as good. Yeah, so interesting.
Speaker 1:That was a beautiful conversation. Thank you, man. Yeah, that was one of my favorites, and you know. But that self-doubt it's interesting that it left you feeling more calm because of who Peter Crone was. But I'm sure you've battled with that at times in the podcast of having a conversation, not go as you please and then having that little voice in your head play with you at times. Has that been something that lasted for a while at times? Has there been weeks or months where you're like shit, I don't know if this is right for me, Absolutely.
Speaker 2:I mean, the way I like to think about it, is that the podcast really started to work when I started to believe and that if you had told me that at the beginning, I probably would have said what do you mean? What's good? What believe Like? If you really believe it will work, somehow it finds a way to work. And so the first year what happened was I really believed it would work, and the second year I didn't believe it would work. And then the third year I rebuilt the belief and more people reflected to me the belief that it was going to work and that has led to more success. And so now the belief is even stronger than when I started, but it's even stronger because it's backed up by so many other people. It's undeniable when people say after a podcast that was amazing, that was incredible and I knew I had that in me in the beginning, but it wasn't until the potential was actualized. Enough times and enough people separately said to me this was an experience that was different, that I actually believe in the third year and now, entering the fourth year, my belief is even stronger, and so the question becomes do you really believe? Because if not, how do we get to the point of really believing? And if you can't get to the point of really believing, what are you doing? Doing it, and the thing about belief too?
Speaker 1:is that it enables you to work harder? Yes, Because when you believe that the hard work that you're putting in will pay off, then the work doesn't. It's not as hard because you know. Yes.
Speaker 2:And you are completely it almost is bigger than you Think about the person who believes in with their child. Like, if they have a child that they need to provide for, they need to believe that whatever they're going to do is going to work and if they don't, they're going to stop doing that and do something else. And that's why people who are new parents tend to have success in business to levels that they previously hadn't had before. And it's because they're not going to be able to do that and it's because, for the first time ever, they know they need to believe in their thing more, which, like you said, forces the person to work harder. And I I want to instill the belief that I have into every person for doing the things that, like you could. If you're lifting weights, do you really believe you're going to get stronger? If you're running, do you really believe you're going to get faster? Do you really believe you could run a marathon? If your podcast, do you really believe you can be the best podcaster you can be, and better than 99% of people, or do a professionally, or whatever it is Like? Do you really believe? If not, like we got to start there what's going on? Because I know there have been periods of time of my life where I've believed. I know there's been periods when I haven't, and I know how life feels and the more color that it has and the more energy I have and the more ability to pour into other people belief is everything, man, and for those people who don't have that belief, it stems from evidence.
Speaker 1:You did it so many times and you had so much evidence that we just beginning to stack up where, to the point where that imposter syndrome would have been laughable for an outside person, you know. So for the person that doesn't feel like they have the belief they need to just keep going, keep stacking wins on each other.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean it's hard right what comes first, the belief or the ability? Yeah, you know, david Cendra belief comes before ability in every single person that he studies. But Hormozzi says you only believe because you have the stack of undeniable proof. Which one is accurate, I don't know. I tend to think more in the David Cendra camp of belief comes before ability. I believed I was an incredible podcaster, conversatious, before I actually was, before episode one. That's why I started, because I knew I had the potential to be, or that it was filling me with joy. So I believed I could and I really did, you know. But then I lost it, and when I lost it I tried to find other ways to make myself happy or to put the belief in myself. And so it's a remarkable thing, and the understanding, the reflection like when I zoom out, is like whatever. If you have belief, thank God that you do, and if you don't like, figure it out, because if you're doing something without belief, to me it's not worth doing.
Speaker 1:What's funny about that is that at a time where I had just done an episode that I didn't love, I had saw your tweet and I was feeling at that time a little bit of a lack of belief. I had saw one of your tweets where it was zero to 150 episodes is the unknown time and then 150 to I think 300 is 150 to 250 was when I didn't believe yeah, when you didn't believe.
Speaker 2:And then 250 to 400 is was when I started to believe again.
Speaker 1:And then I was. I was like oh shit, man, I've done 80, 80, something of these. Like I'm still in this unknown time, Like I don't have enough perspective to have a lack of or to think that this won't work yet because I haven't done it enough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I think that, like reframing it, of understanding you just haven't gone to the gym enough times. Yes, it's very helpful of like okay, you put in 86 workouts like you're in great shape, you're in better shape than most people and that's an incredible thing. But it's like are you in as good of shape as Joe Rogan? Like there's no way, you know, he's just done it thousands of times. Are you in as good of shape as Tim Ferriss? Done it hundreds of times and you know hundreds of times that are unrecorded and I think, a lot of times also it's like we only see the things that are recorded. So what we don't have is Rogan's first 30 years of communications. It's like how many podcasts that he recorded his first 30 years. How many podcasted Tim Ferriss record on record that were for books and were for speaking engagements. It's like dude, these people just have so many reps under the gun of recorded and unrecorded conversations that we just don't have access to. But they're in their 40s and 50s and it's like you're looking at it and be like I've done this 100 times and it's like, yeah, and like it's supposed to not work if you do it 100 times. And that was the hard part for me Because I was like, let me do this 100 times and it's going to work. And then I got to 100 and I'm like, why isn't this working? And it's like, well, 100 was just to figure out if this is a path for you. 100 is just to ask yourself am I doing the right thing? That's fun for me in the moment that I'm getting better at If yes, continue, if no, stop. And that's okay too. And it's like I thought that 100 would make me a professional and it didn't. It made me understand that I would like to be a professional here and I always reframe it Like I've been podcasting for a little over three years. It's like if someone was playing basketball for a little over three years, even if they had natural talent to begin, would you expect them to be a pro basketball player. If somebody had been a lawyer for three years, a little over three years would you expect them to be a professional. Or they'd be like maybe starting their first year of law after going to law school and it's like is that person really ready? Like maybe in their third or fourth year of playing basketball. They're like, I don't know, in their fourth year of practicing, which would be like six years in the game maybe. So reframing expectations for me has been really helpful and understanding that I'm winning even when I'm losing.
Speaker 1:It reminds me of my new favorite quote that I first heard on your episode with Hermosi from Michelangelo, which was if you knew I'm not going to say it correctly but if you knew how much time went into this painting, you'd be a lot less impressed, and I think there's a beauty there in applying it to anything in life. It's like if you knew how much work it took Joe Rogan to get to that place, you'd be a lot less impressed. When you hear that episode. There's a beauty in that, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really well said and I think what's remarkable is how much of it is hidden. It's remarkable how I just interviewed this woman who did 200 ultramarathons in 200 days in a row. It's like she'd been running for 26 years. That's the part. We see the 200 and 200 days, but we don't see the 25 years of just running because it was fun, because that was where her joy was. And yeah, it wasn't always fun and yeah, there were moments where she didn't want to run and she was like I hate this, but she ran for 25 years and then she decided to do this crazy challenge. And now Wall Street Journal is writing about her, the Danny Miranda podcast is covering her Like she's with the best of the best. I'm just like, but it all seriousness. It's remarkable how we only see the top of the mountain for people who have been in their game for X number of years, and I love to dive into that. What did you learning how to communicate? Look like, what was you crawling before you were walking, now you're running. But like what was the walking period like? Because it really helps reset baseline expectations. How old are you? I'm 23. Yeah, you're 23 years old. Talking about deep things, deep truths, asking deep questions to people who are changing the world, and so that's a lot more than I was doing at 23,. You know, and not that it's a comparison, but it's just.
Speaker 1:It's just a really cool thing and it's like it takes a while Takes a while, and something that you've been doing recently that was probably my favorite part of taking your course was starting the greats, because it's funny to see how different all these people are. What do you think you took away from going back and really sitting down and saying, looking at the people who have had a lot of success in this game of communication?
Speaker 2:Yeah, to me, that was my favorite part.
Speaker 1:I'm so happy that's funny.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's funny that that was the part that really hit you too. It was my favorite because it was something I inherently understood but couldn't put words to that great communicators communicate differently and that you need to. I need to study them all in order to really understand the way that I'm supposed to do it. And I learned that you could be really researched, like Tim Ferriss does, or you could be completely in the moment like Larry King. Yeah, and both of those are correct and both of those are winning. But you have to figure out, like, what does winning look like for you? What are, what is your style that really works? And so, and like, random things also really hit me, like Oprah and her touch, like I started touching people a lot more after that.
Speaker 1:I'm going to get a good clip on that, oh goodness.
Speaker 2:But I started like connecting with people at a physical level and I think part of the reason why we don't touch each other as much anymore is because we're so nervous or insecure, like I don't want I don't want this to be taken the wrong way but I just like embrace and hug and love one another, like loving and being one with someone is like is really about connecting physically on the on the baseline, and it makes you feel different. So I think what I took from all of that was just like people communicate so differently but really what's at the heart of all of them is like a mutual appreciation for the person they're speaking to and a love and a desire to connect that themselves and the person they're speaking to. And that is what seems, seemingly, is what is in common from all of them. That I studied.
Speaker 1:It's funny you bring up the touch because you gave me a huge hug when we walked in and it puts you at ease. It's like he's excited to be here. It makes me even more excited to be here knowing that you're excited to be here. There's definitely something there that is calming for people.
Speaker 2:And it's crazy that you took all of that away from just one hug, right Like we say so much without even saying anything and I think it's remarkable how particularly intuitive people but just people in general how intuitive we really are, and how much information you're giving off regardless of whether you're saying anything or not, and a lot of it is unconscious, yeah, so that's really cool, Do you think that's one of the beauties?
Speaker 1:doing in-person episodes is like you're able to see this more non-verbal stuff. It definitely brings out a different like the conversation is different when you're on Zoom versus in-person. Is it that non-verbal stuff? You think Definitely.
Speaker 2:And just like seeing someone's legs, seeing their arms, seeing how they communicate, just there's so much going on that we don't have access to over Zoom. What's your breakdown of how many Zoom conversations versus in-person roughly?
Speaker 1:I think this is my fifth in-person, so about 80 remote.
Speaker 2:Wow, and so what do you think the biggest difference is?
Speaker 1:There's more of a flow in-person. I'm more quicker to make statements versus questions. In-person. I feel more comfortable knowing that, like, if I just make a statement right now, I can see in Danny if he's ready to respond to that or if he needs a question to prompt something else. It's interesting. So I think it's the flow more than anything else. What about you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the ability to interject in small ways is not something that you really can do over Zoom or virtual, but that in-person you can make a quick statement that yes, would not have happened virtually and that, yes, makes us feel like we're more on the same page and more connected. So it's funny how that little thing makes it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the connection there. That's interesting. Have you had how have you approached getting guests to do in-person and like there's a lot of coordination there that has to take place yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean there definitely is coordination. I feel like if it's important to you, you get it done For Andy, for Sella, I flew out to him.
Speaker 1:Yep, and that was a great video. Yeah, I loved watching the behind the scenes with Hunter. That was really cool.
Speaker 2:It was special. It was so special and to be able to document that and go to his facilities, it made a difference. That I could, he gave us a tour before and that I could feel the presence of all the people who worked there and how similar they were to Andy in the sense that they were disciplined and committed and focused and clear on their vision. That made a huge difference to me and I think when you do it in person, you get that aspect of life Like you get the unseen things of what are their employees like or what if you go to their studios or facility or even like if they come in and they bring one of their employees or friends Like you. The people we have around us are reflections of us and when you do them in person and you see the people around, the people you interview give you a greater sense for what they value and what they care about.
Speaker 1:The people around us are reflection of us. It reminds me of being in Austin. I mean, we're both in Austin in person here, and it's so crazy to see this community that I've only ever seen online like the type of people. Yeah. Never really met those people with these type of interests in reality until being here, and I've been here for probably like 60 hours or something like that and you just it's so interesting to actually start to meet those people in person and it raises your game. Like I've been working my ass off since I got here because I go to the gym here and it's like there's no other gym that everyone's in as good a shape as this place. It's crazy. Yeah. And that's just a simple analogy, but it applies to all things, whether it's a podcast or Twitter, whatever it may be.
Speaker 2:it's like you're surrounded by people playing the game at a high level, and I think the one thing that I've noticed from being here in Austin is everyone I meet or interact with, it seems like they're building something for themselves that they're excited about, and I've never been to a city where that's the case, where it's seemingly every person is like yeah, like yeah, maybe I work at Facebook, but I'm building this thing, you know like, and it's like whoa, the people I met who are working at Facebook are all team Facebook or in San Francisco or in New York or whatever. But it's like it's really exciting to me that there's like a place where people who are entrepreneurially minded and are building things for themselves are here and they're just in full swing, and it makes you want to continue to pour into the things you're building as well, it makes it easier to find guests too, because there's a lot of good guests in person that you meet and that you run into.
Speaker 1:Has there been some funny serendipitous encounters that have led to podcasting guests?
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean. It's like I view the whole thing as serendipitous in some sense. Like if a guest finds, or I'm attracted to a particular guest because I'm interested in them or their ideas, I'm like the fact that this even happened is crazy, but I don't know. I'm trying to think of any off the top of my head that are particularly serendipitous. None come to mind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the whole thing in general. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, very cool that Andy for Cell episode. I thought it was you at your best, thank you, to be honest with you, it was. I was really impressed. Why Having I think there was, on one hand, you were incredibly curious and interested, but you also had you had done. What was it called? 90 days, 75. 75.
Speaker 2:You had done 75 hard yeah.
Speaker 1:You have your mindsets, I think, aligned in a way to allow the conversation to just be one of those ones. You know, yeah, and I think there's something to be said about just the two people's energies matching.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know it's funny that you say that, because, tom Bill, you often talks about how, in fighting in martial arts styles, make fights, and in podcasting that's also true. I think it's true and it's like how those two people's energies align, how their thoughts connect and do they connect. And you could have two people who are amazing on podcasts and then you put them together and it's not as good because for some reason they just don't mesh in that way. And that's part of the process and I think that with Andy, it was so clear how aligned we were and how we were building on each other and coming to new realizations and helping each other grow, and that was a really special thing. Styles make podcasts it's funny.
Speaker 1:I was listening to Chris Williamson and Stephen Bartlett the other day and there was just a quick, offhanded remark that Chris made about how you know, although they might have a lot of the same guests on, the conversations are so different because Chris is obsessed with ideas and Stephen is obsessed with stories. So two incredibly different styles in the same realm, and I never even thought about the style of podcasting that I have or whatever it may be. Have you thought about that for yourself? Like, what is my style? Am I more curious about ideas, stories? How have you? Have you tried to piece that out for yourself?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, my thing is I want to learn about the other person and help them learn about themselves, and I don't know exactly how I would phrase that in one word, right Like stories or ideas, but to me that that's the part, and that was such a great line by Chris and I. I noticed that as well and I highlighted that in my mind. But yeah, I think for me it is really like how can I help the other person learn something about themselves? in a way that is helpful to the audience as well. Why do you think that's your guiding light?
Speaker 1:Because, I think, it doesn't seem clear on the outside that that would be something from a podcasting perspective. That would be someone's thing that they're trying to accomplish.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's because there's a deep part inside of me that's like a therapist and there's another part that's a journalist, and so I'm like balancing these two, in that I'm trying to tell the story of the person, but I'm also trying to really understand them and help them understand themselves and try to show them, potentially, the places where they're blocked or they can grow through their own, through my own questions or through their own answers. And so, yeah, to me that's the, that's the thing that I love doing. I can talk about ideas, but to me, I and ideas are exciting, but they're exciting to the extent that they help show the other person who they really are Part therapist, part journalist.
Speaker 1:That's a cool way to put it. You just had that therapist on who interviewed Andrew Tate. Yes, it's in my bookmarks to listen, but was there a person who was there to help me? Was there any particular takeaways from was it? You've had a few therapists on the podcast, right, but it seems like they bring a particular sense of clarity of thought that other people don't have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good perspective. David Sutcliffe is a great guy. Austin as well should have him on. He he is. I was we met once before we were recorded. It was just me asking him questions Like how do you do this? What's your process I notice you were so present in this moment Like how, how were you able to do this? What, what would you recommend for me? I know like you took the conversation this way and and how, how do you think that people view me? I was asking him all these questions because I'm like I notice he has a gift for this and I want that gift and I want to, I want to put water to that gift to the best of my abilities.
Speaker 1:And the awareness dude. It just keeps going back to that for me, yeah. And what stands out? Because it's so prevalent in the skills that have allowed you to be in this game for three and a half years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's the awareness of myself, of what I'm actually interested in. It's the awareness of the moment, and then bringing that and the awareness of the research to be aware of them, to know which questions to ask that could help them understand themselves more clearly, and then being aware that we are creating something in this moment that's never been done before, because a guest will enjoy the podcast to the extent that they feel like they learned something about themselves or they said something new or went to a new place or created something. No guest is going to be happy if they just repeated all of the things that they said on previous podcasts. They're just going to be like, okay, well, I just could have retweeted that podcast. That I did, you know so.
Speaker 1:And it happens a lot. It happens a lot if you listen to certain episodes of different shows. It was something funny that it's funny. You bring that up because I had never thought about that until I had maybe only a few months ago saw that you had Chris Williamson on a way, way back in the day. And I went back to 96 and I listened to it and you had made a, or Chris had made a comment talking about how you don't want to reinvent the wheel, like you want to allow people to. You don't want to make every episode so so unique in the fact that if they have something that they are very well versed in or that you think is amazing, that they say on a different show, you don't want to just throw that away because they had already said it and then it was like huh, that's interesting, like there's something to be said there about not repeating what somebody else has said but allowing yourself to bring it back up in conversation.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Well. I mean, it's like, if that's their zone of genius, how do you get that their zone of genius into a light that maybe they haven't even considered before? Morgan Housel was talking about his appearance on Tim Ferriss's show and he was like 80 percent of what I said I had never even thought about before. And he talked about finance and writing and all the stuff they normally talks about, but just in a new light. And so we got to explore his own genius in a way that he didn't even know yet and that speaks to Tim's gifts and his talents. And you know, chris has an amazing style that's obviously worked of like yeah, bring up the things that.
Speaker 1:Yeah that it's so unique. It's so unique. It's cool to see him develop it because you can see how it's been changing with time, the progression with the progression of it, and now you know he's so well researched. But it's so different than ever how everyone else does research. It's like these concepts and then throwing it back at you, almost being like a mirror in a way, and then and then having a ton of quotes that like perfectly aligned with what they were saying of. It's very unique to Chris.
Speaker 2:And I think that be the mirror that's unique to you is the best way to do podcasting that I've I've ever thought about how can you be the most perfect mirror for yourself, for your own unique talents and gifts. And so, like when Stephen Barlett asked like how are you, how are you really?
Speaker 1:doing that crazy.
Speaker 2:It's just like that is a that is his own unique mirror in this. You know, like that's just him, and so I think the better you can get at knowing yourself, the better you can be at being that mirror.
Speaker 1:That is actually you, and not you pretending to be Chris Williams or you pretending to be Stephen Barlett just you you know, Stephen Barlett's genius is so interesting because he hasn't really been doing it for that that long on the grand scale of things. I don't know how many episodes he has particularly, but I think it's only in the 200s and he just has a gift or a presence that allows him to get things out of guests and get guests to be vulnerable in a way that you see them, that you don't see them in other episodes. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, and, and that's the therapy in it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, he's very, he's very on the therapy side. That's interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and he's got like a therapist side of him that I absolutely love and adore and appreciate so much. And he even said he was thinking about going back to school to get his therapy degree. Oh, interesting, because he's like I love doing this, so like why don't I be a professional at it, or actually seen as a professional? And I appreciate that because that was something I considered before even starting the podcast myself of like I should probably get a degree in therapy or being a psychologist because I love that.
Speaker 1:So, and there's a spectrum from interview to conversation. That's interesting. Like you see, rogan on one side of the spectrum of like all flow and all just pure conversation, like the nephew guys, just no real point to it, he's not trying to get anything out. Even if the person has a book, they don't really. They sometimes don't even talk about the book, right. And then there's guys on the total other end of the spectrum and then you have like guys like Steven Bartlett that are a bit in the middle. Have you, how do you think podcasters, particularly people who are at the start of their journey, how do you think they should weigh those things and figure out, develop that sense of awareness, to understand where on that spectrum they are? And Because once you have that awareness, it allows you to be a better host, because you just can play to your strengths more. And I'm also curious where you see yourself on that spectrum.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you find out where you are by doing it like it's impossible to Do it any other way. You can't think your way to knowing what type of podcaster you are. So that's the first thing I figured out from the reps, from doing episode 8 with no research to episode 61. So much research and figuring out where I am in the middle. I Would say I'm probably closest to Steven Bartlett if I had to guess. So pretty close in the middle, pretty close in the middle, I'd say that's fair. But maybe more research and see the barlots on more interviewer, mm-hmm, but I don't know. I feel like it's also developing. Yeah, I'm young absolutely. Yeah, I'm in the game for three, three years and some change. So what's?
Speaker 1:going on. Yeah, something you've been Really honing in on this year is like YouTube. Mm-hmm and this, the the marketing side of podcasting, is interesting Because, you know one, it takes a while to grow good, or to be good at the act, and then also takes a while to Understand what to do to grow the show. Yeah, so, when it comes to that growing of the show, what do you see as the biggest lever? Is it YouTube?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so. I think YouTube's the biggest place for growth right now for a podcaster. And it's funny because I was on the phone with my brother in the past week and he's like dude, I thought you were at two thousand subscribers, you're at 13,000 good stuff. I'm like, yeah, I mean it. It to me it's a, it's a fun, it's a fun place to explore, because I feel like it's the most clear where someone will discover a video Podcast and be like, alright, I'll listen to this, and so it's the most close transfer that I can imagine. And to me, getting good at it has been the process of of being bad at it for a long time and not putting a lot of energy or attention into it and Now that I'm putting more energy and attention into it, I'm like noticing little things that I otherwise wouldn't notice. Like, for example, I didn't notice for like three years that the clips that do the best are when the guest is mid-sentence in the thumbnail. It's like that's such a small thing that is actually beneficial and useful. Or just like having a consistent framing for the guest, and Like where their faces on the thumbnail or how many characters in the title make for the best episodes, for the most click-through rate. And then like, like, should you put the podcast After? Like I put the Danny Miranda podcast and the number after the episode, because I tested it and that performs better. So, like I used to buddycom to run, I think I've ran probably like a hundred tests over the past Two months, three months, and so I'm testing things all the time and I'm getting better at learning what exactly is working and what's not and why, and so, yeah, you get better at things you focus your attention on, and I've put my attention on YouTube and Growing pretty well. I mean long way to go, but I'm happy with the progress so far.
Speaker 1:So for someone first getting started in that YouTube realm, what would be the biggest things of focus to Allow them? Because there's the thumbnails, there's the titles, it's description timestamps. There's a lot of things at play there. What do you think the biggest levers are that allow for you to start to begin to grow?
Speaker 2:I think the truth is just having conversations that people want to listen to, you know At, and it's hard too, because a lot of my episodes are evergreen and I'm like this is a conversation I know you're gonna want to listen to in ten years, you know, and this person is someone quote unquote are known by a lot more people, but I Mean that episodes with for Stella and Hormozzi have done the best. Why? Because those people those are people that people want to hear from. And how did I get those opportunities? I did good work for other people and people saw that I believed enough to give me those opportunities. It wasn't, it wasn't me reaching out to Andy for Stella or Alex Hormozzi being like, hey, come on my podcast. At that level, what I've noticed is it's people they trust who are saying you got to go on this guy's show, mm-hmm. And so how do you get to the level where the people who are Aligned with the people that you want to have on believe in you? You need to believe in yourself and they need to see that you believe in yourself because they're staking their reputation on you having a doing a good job with that person, and so it's so clear to me now, but it wasn't clear to me back then. Like I didn't see that mm-hmm but today I see that it's really just a function of of Getting the people close to the people On your side and I didn't intentionally try to do that, I just was myself and I believed, and that got other people to believe too, and that got other people excited about the vision and the mission that I was putting out as well. And so it's got to be bigger than yourself. It's got to be something you actually believe in. It's got to be Something that you're putting your heart and soul into, because imagine, imagine the world in which Alex Ramos is on the podcast and his employee said yo, you got to go on this podcast and I'm like yo, who are you like? What's going on like? And I it's not a good episode at all, and the reason why is because I didn't prepare and I didn't have any questions. He's gonna get off that podcast and be like dude. Why do you tell me to go here? Yeah, he doesn't know me. He's trusting and they're all at that level and he, for sell it doesn't have time to go through the podcast and see which which is a good person to talk to and which isn't. You've got to believe in yourself. If you don't, it's over, because how are you gonna get someone else who's aligned with that person to believe in you? So that's my, that's my thoughts on on that whole thing.
Speaker 1:I believe in the self at the end of the day.
Speaker 2:That's the most important, yeah, and then that ripples, yeah, it ripples.
Speaker 1:So those guys, they did they reach out to you, or did you reach out to them? And then just so happen that they're people.
Speaker 2:It. It's different for every person, but at that level it is just their employees or the people that they align themselves with. Mm-hmm, we'll sign off on someone, okay, okay, and it's like, okay, that person's good to go. Yep, got it. And then you're good and it's like all right, all right, let's do it. It's that easy to get in the door, but you know that took three years. Yeah, and that's why years are so important, because if somebody is willing to commit three years to this mission and this podcast Isn't, quote-unquote, successful or not a lot of people are looking at it and this person's still doing it. Oh, it must be a part of their souls mission. Mm-hmm and I think that is what years indicate. How much do you believe, how much is this part of your mission that you were put on this earth to do? And Because there's a lot of things that I've tried and done for a month, three months, six months a year but haven't actually stayed with. The difference is the things that I'm actually doing still Meditating still it's part of my soul's mission. Lift and wait still it's part of my soul's mission.
Speaker 1:So that's kind of how I view it, at least do you have a what's your process look like for finding? Yes, I.
Speaker 2:Look at people who inspire me, people who light me up. It's that feeling you get when you're like, oh, there's something here, I got. I got to ask this person this, I got to. I would love to sit down in the room to feel this person's energy. I Just cast a wide net in terms of. I spent a lot of time online. I spent a lot of time thinking about people and and I'm looking for depth I'm looking for how much has this person thought about ideas? How much time is this person Spent in their game? How far is this person gotten in their game? How much is what this person is doing? How much of it is aligned with their souls? Mission is really what I'm trying to figure out. Is this person going to be doing this ten years from now? If so, why are why not? So all those things are going through my head and if I feel that love, that connection to them, or that, that feeling like they're on their path and I Will want to be aligned with them in some way, then I'll I'll sit down and ask if they would like to have a conversation.
Speaker 1:I've had a few moments where it's like Having a crisis of not knowing who to who to have on the pod. Have you been there and then? And then it's how do you Start to peace out then? Who to then ask?
Speaker 2:yeah, no, I don't. I've never felt like I had that crisis. What?
Speaker 1:what is causing it for you? I think it's too wide of a spectrum of people, of type of person that I won't want to have, and then it's a Not knowing in what side of me I should lean into more For the podcast, and then it feels like the spectrum is almost too big and too wide at times for me to have clarity in what type of guess I want to have on yeah so. What what are we gonna do about it? I think I think I'm out, a bit out of it now and I think what really has got me out of it is Not really caring, yeah, and just being like and just really taking the approach of what lights you up. Yeah, it's like almost that. It's almost nevals razor of um, if you like it, or nevola Rick Rubin one of the two, if. If you make it for you, you make it for you, and there's so many people who have the opposite approach of like you niche down and you try to grow and then you expand outwards. But there's something to be said about Making things for you, because it allows you to stay in the game. At the end of the day, you win the game by staying in the game.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I resonate with that really strongly. It's like I gotta love it. If I don't love it, I'm not gonna do it. Yeah, I get one life, I'm gonna spend it doing something, that I'm gonna spend it having conversations with people. I don't want to talk to you, mm-hmm. To me that sounds painful. Yeah, that sounds miserable and Thankfully, I love people and that's been one of the the key parts as well. It's like there aren't many people I wouldn't want to talk to you. I'm curious, I'm interested, and so there's never enough people for me to talk to, because for me, every person leads to five more people that I can talk to. So I think, when in doubt for you in the future, if it happens out, I would really look at the people you had the most fun with and then, going through their Twitter likes, going through their Instagram follow who are they following on Instagram? Who's giving them joy? If that person brought you joy, they're getting that joy from somewhere else that's slightly connected to them and genius.
Speaker 1:It's perfect, it makes. It makes great sense, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think so much of life is the network of people who are weak we are connected to and that's what doing the podcast is really lit up for me of. Each person has their own friends and partners and people they rely on, and If you could find out who's connected to who, you have a clear picture of the world as it is being at, is as it is unfolding, and then you start to realize like, oh, I'm in one of these networks, I'm in this now. Oh, my god, I'm in this one. Yeah, and it's really. And that's why I love doing so many episodes I post Monday, wednesday and Friday because I'm in the flow of information and people in a way that most people aren't Right, and that is exciting. Because now you're if Kevin Bacon's and everyone's network. You know Kevin Bacon is six degrees of separation. Everyone is connected to Kevin Bacon in some way, and so To me. I love the fact that I can be involved in all these networks, that I can be a part of the flow of information In my own little world, because it makes me feel connected. When we feel connected, we feel at peace, and when we feel at peace, work in presence, and when we're present, we have the best conversations the world shrinks.
Speaker 1:It's bizarre. Yes, I was. I had went to Arizona a few weeks ago and it was like, just because of the podcast, I hung out with four people who, if I just went and didn't have this world of Podcasting, I would have never met. And then I come to Austin and it's the same type of thing there. The world shrinks and it's like that six degrees of separation Turns into like two degrees of separation with almost everybody. It is. It's absurd, yeah.
Speaker 2:I cannot, I cannot say enough Like the benefits that you get are so much beyond the view count that I think in this medium in particular, it's like you get to explore someone's soul. That's how I view it, and when you do that, you you get a deeper connection with them. Then we would get if we just had coffee for two hours potentially, or if we just had a workout, or if, if you like, there's so many, there's so many benefits of connecting with somebody's soul in a deep way for an hour, two hours, unstructured or structured that that gives you so much More depth to the person than you otherwise would get, which allows you to connect deeper with them and connects deeper with the people they're connected to as well.
Speaker 1:The network effect is one of the biggest Unforeseen benefits of podcasting. What do you, what do you think some of those other ones are that we haven't discussed today, because we have really covered how this art of podcasting Translates to your own life, and I think that's kind of the underlying message of this episode so far. Do you think there's some that we haven't discussed?
Speaker 2:I would say, ability to ask questions, ability to listen. We talked about to help people out. Like you can help out people by giving them more information about themselves or just speaking. Like how many people go to a therapist and they're like, oh wow, I feel so much better just because I said all this, and so that's a huge part as well. Like one part that's been amazing for me in being in Austin is like people will come up to me, be like yo dude, I listened to the podcast. That's something that I wasn't like expecting or that's been incredible about.
Speaker 1:It's like there are people who actually listen this is cool, and one of the things on that topic that you said in our first episode that I didn't realize is that when you do a show that is geared toward growth oriented people, those type of people that your show attracts, especially in the early stages, before it's like this mainstream thing, are people who are killing it in life and are also aligned with you, and so those people that are coming up to you in the street, people you actually want to hang out with.
Speaker 2:Dude, every person who's come up to me has been cool and that I would grab coffee with, and that's like oh, when you look at the person that you are attracting and that person you could imagine as a friend, you know you're doing something right, because the worst place to be is when you're creating content and you, the people that are coming back, are people you don't want to associate with. That's how you know you're doing something wrong. So to me, I'm so excited by it being early and small and small. It's like 100,000 people play it a month. It's like not that small, but it's still small in the grand scheme of things. But it's like there's so many amazing people in that small subset of people that excites me so much.
Speaker 1:I know you're going to do a solo cast podcast coming up soon about the key lessons that you've learned through the podcast. Have you been thinking about that? Or there's some that are front of mind for you right now.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm going to record it right after this. Oh really, yeah, so it'll go out on Friday, but off the top of my head, I would say that the first thing is like meeting your heroes is the coolest thing in the world, especially when all of your heroes turn out to be better, as good or better than you expected. To me, I'm like this is the most amazing thing and that's like the number one lesson that I've learned, and maybe it's just my like seeing the best in people is something that I feel like I have, and getting the best out of people. Yeah, well, in order to get the best out of someone, you need to see the best out of them. Right, and that's how I view it, at least. And, yeah, like I met so many of my heroes and, too, like people are so much more approachable than you may think, like the amount of people I sent messages to in the early days, like Ali Abdaal, and that he was down to come on the podcast, episode 61 granted, it was during the COVID times, but it was still like that was crazy for me at the time Like Gary Vaynerchuk coming on episode 39, like Chris Williamson, episode 96, like these are early days, no one's watching, no one's listening, no one even knows that these episodes exist. And that's amazing, because these are the early days in a different way as well, and I think, like I just didn't realize quite how approachable people were for people that had audiences, people that were putting themselves out there online.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's really crazy the people that you can reach that you don't think that like the average person doesn't think that you can reach.
Speaker 2:You know like we create barriers in our head, because if we were to come face to face with the idea that that person is us, it would give us a new responsibility for ourselves.
Speaker 1:So what you're saying is you, if you realize that you have that potential within you, you're oh shit, I'm not living up to that potential. So you create a wall between those two things, correct?
Speaker 2:You look at that person and you're like that person's on the mountaintop, that person's so much greater than me and because they're so much greater than me, I can never do what they're doing in any way. And they're on the stage and I'm just an audience member and it's so. They're so far from me and what it's the podcast has really done is like oh, that's you. Like you are face to face with your potential over and over and over and over again. And it's like maybe I'll never run a 230 marathon like Ken Rideout at 55 years old, but can I run a marathon? Absolutely, right that. Can I build a business? Absolutely. Can I have an incredible podcast starting from nothing? Absolutely. I saw Chris Williamson do it right. Like you can do so much more than you think you can before you start a project like this. And so it's really made me realize my responsibility as a human to just do more.
Speaker 1:And when you become that person who's less impressed and more involved, as Matthew McConaughey would say, and you starting to humanize that person, you're having a conversation with that person. And then you stack up all these conversations with people like that, you start to see themes, and the themes are so simple. It's things like the obstacle being the way and understanding that, like the failures, are the prerequisites to the success. And you know, it reminds me of this quote when you know the way broadly, you see the way in all things, and it's just like every thing. There's meta lessons sprinkled it with throughout all these episodes that allow you to realize that there isn't any secret sauce. There isn't anybody who's like that much smarter than you are, that much wiser, doesn't? They don't have this innate superpower that you think that they do. And it's really just work, consistency and relentlessness, yes.
Speaker 2:And those people may have had gifts and they watered their gifts. They watered them with continuous action and visualization and understanding that they were on their path. Like the gifts that you see top performers in every field, is like. They built those because they felt like they were part of their calling and they had sprinkles of them throughout their childhood, but those sprinkles became reality through their work.
Speaker 1:So for that person who's thinking about starting the podcast and there you mentioned there, like for those people, they see it as a part of their calling, like these skills that they're developing Is it the same advice that we've kind of heard throughout this episode of the only way to understand whether this is something you're being called for is to do it? Do you think that's the only way to understand whether this path of podcasting, or even trying to do something different than the conventional path, is for you? The only way to figure that out is to do it yourself?
Speaker 2:Yeah, or just think about it for the next 50 years, like you just think, think, think, think, think, think, think, think, think. Where do you end up? Right, you could think about it, which a lot of people might be inclined to do. Or you can take a step and you know you're taking a step if it's uncomfortable. I didn't want to put out video of myself. It was uncomfortable for me to put a video, which is so funny looking back. But, like Gary Vaynerchuk agreed to come on the podcast, episode 39. And I'm like all right, I guess I got to do video for this and that stepped me into a new reality.
Speaker 1:That's a scary one, especially episode 39. Like, I'm thinking back and you're just whoo, there's things you want to edit that you can't edit when there's video, that is for sure, and it's scary, scary.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and to be, to be at peace with, like, this new chapter. And it's like when you become someone different, you understand that you are killing the old version of yourself that you are comfortable with because you lived as that person for some time. But change is inevitable and you're going to change. But are you going to change to be the person that you are excited to be? And it's remarkable, man, you know, you're just looking back on, like I think what happens is like the level of what you accept for yourself just keeps on rising and your bar for quality just keeps on rising. And it's good to be naive about the first workout of like this is the best I could do at that time and love that person who showed up to the gym the first time, because without that person you couldn't get to episode 86. But, yeah, it's an exciting thing. Starting something new is is a special time. And like, take that energy and realize that you can be what I am, or you can be what Rogan is If you just do the same amount of work that Rogan does. Right, like that to me is like the unlock, like you can be a runner if you run every day Like you're, you're doing the same exact activities. Not that you're going to get the same output, but if the input's the same, you are the same in some sense. And really sitting with that when I was starting out, it's like James Clear did two pieces of writing a week, two blog posts a week. So I'm going to do that too. I'm going to do two blog posts a week. I'm a writer If I do two blog posts a week. So I did that and it led to me starting the podcast. So if you're in that, you know zero to one stage and you're listening to this, it's like you're capable. How much work are you going to put in to be the person you want to be? That's the question.
Speaker 1:There's this guy, david McRaney, who came on the podcast in like the 30s or 40s and the I asked him what advice he'd give his 21 year old self and he quoted someone else and the advice was find something that requires you to become and I love that so much because the person to do anything great, the person that you are right now. You have to outgrow that person and you know it's the beauty of podcasting and the beauty of doing anything hard that the person you are today isn't the person that can do that thing and you have to build that person up. But it's doable, it's within your grasp in most cases.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and is the work that you're putting in today something you're excited to become if you were to play it out 10 years?
Speaker 1:That's a great razor for understanding the progress you're making.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Wow, yeah, because the actions that you do today are the habits that form into the person and identity you will become so if you consistently do that thing that you are doing right now, over and over and over and over and over again. Are you excited to be that person or are you not? Because a lot of people want the idea of being a podcaster and talking to all these cool people and doing all these great conversations, but they don't want to do the actions of a podcast, which is understandable, you know, and respectable, and I love the idea of being a professional basketball player, but I also know one. I don't have the gifts to do it and I don't even if professional wasn't my desire and I just wanted to be the best basketball player I could. I know I don't actually want to do the actions that it would require of the gym nonstop, the hours and hours and hours and hours and the ice baths, and it's like I'd rather do that, do what I want on my own time, playing hoops every now and then. I'd rather be an amateur at basketball, and so I think that choosing our amateur and choosing our pro is really important to think about, and that you can be an amateur at podcasting and there's nothing wrong with that and there's a lot of benefits to be had by being an amateur at podcasting. Like think about the person who has 100 focused, dedicated conversations over the course of their lifetime. That person has more understanding than the person who doesn't do it at all. So, yeah, I don't even want to like say that the amateur's bad. I love playing basketball once a week and not trying to improve at it.
Speaker 1:Like that's amazing too you know, Choosing to turn pro from Steven Pressfield. He has that book Turning Pro and it's a very interesting concept because if you think about outside of professional sports, there's so few people who turn pro with their life to become great at this thing. Like you, look at a professional athlete and their diet, nutrition, sleep, their life is organized in a way to have success in this one realm and there's so few, next to nobody, who maybe some professional guitarist or singers, and but there's very few people that organize their life in a way to be a professional at this one thing. Have you decided to turn pro? When was that that you said, okay, I'm going to design my life in a way to be great at this thing.
Speaker 2:I think the third year of the podcast was that, but I think, even more broadly, was it conscious? Yes, but even more, it was the fourth year. Like in August I was. I went to a retreat, like by myself, cabin in the Woods. For the second time, I did that in August of 2020. And that's where I decided, like I love podcasting, I want to talk to 100 people Like these are the people I want to talk to. I can't wait for. This is going to be so exciting and that created the most true version of my life, which is the podcast. The most true thing that I've ever done came from me going away for five days without technology. So I said I should do this again. So in August of 2023, I go back, and this time I didn't have any. I didn't post any episodes the week that I went away and I was like I need to, I need to go deeper on this. Like, yes, I'm a pro at podcasting. Yes, I've done, but if I was really a pro, I wouldn't miss any days, I wouldn't miss anything, and I'm going to take this to a new level. Like I already am committed, I already believe. And what would it look like if I really believed, and what would it look like if I really committed? And then the thumbnail start to improve and then the and then everything starts to take another level and then it's like, well, it's it's because I had Hormoseon and it's because I really believe that it starts to to increase. That's been what three months, and it's like these three months have been so enjoyable, so difficult in a good way. That has made me feel better and and I've improved so much. And it's like it's because I've recommitted to the task at hand and I'm constantly, I hope the version of myself that watches this back five years from now when I'm 33, looks at like you are recommitting then, like you had no idea what was coming in the best way.
Speaker 1:So has it been easy to understand what you should invest your time into versus what you should invest your money into when it comes to like do I invest my time into learning how to create thumbnails in short form and all this stuff, or do I invest my money into that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean for me. It basically all my money has gone back into the podcast.
Speaker 1:I mean, if you want to, if you want it to be what you wanted to do, it has to be right. Yeah, so, and all my time feels like it goes into the podcast because how I show, up outside the podcast is how the podcast will turn out.
Speaker 2:So, like the workout, like the run, the, the coffee that I get, the walk around with headphones or without, those are all my time going into the podcast. I mean, I've committed so much to this, but only because it's given me so much and only because I continue to get so much from it. So is that scary? In a way, not at all. It's freeing because imagine, you know how much you are, are building yourself every day, regardless of whether it turns out as people expect it or not, regardless of every every video I post gets a hundred thousand views or not. Like dude, I'm winning, I already won. Someone asked me today it's like a 50 year old, like millionaire dude, like dude. Okay, if you, if you map this out, what does success look like to you? I was like dude, I'm the most successful person I know. I am so successful by metric of. I am in my purpose, I am, I believe in myself, I believe in you and I help people show them themselves what is possible. How could I win or succeed any more than this? This is it, I'm winning. And so you know. It struck me in that moment Like I've already won, and so everything I do now is like extra I get a lot, a bunch of views Great. I don't get a bunch of views Also great I. I make a lot of money Great, I don't make a lot of money Also great I am in my purpose. When you are in your purpose, I am put on this earth to help people, show them the light that they are, to help them believe. And when you're in that, when you really understand that it doesn't matter if the podcast works out, it doesn't matter if you make a lot of money, it matters if you're loving every damn day and helping other people love every damn day too. So no, to answer your question, it's not difficult, it's not. It's not hard to do, it's the easiest thing in the world.
Speaker 1:One of the quotes that really puts me at ease and it reminds me of what you just said, is make mistakes from ambition, not sloth. Love that. Make mistakes from ambition, not sloth, because if you look at the things that people regret, it's almost always unless it's like a crime or something crazy it's from laziness or sloth. It's never from going out there and putting out a hundred episodes and dedicating your time to it. No one regrets that. Even if they quit the podcast and there's that to be nothing, no one regrets those mistakes that they make when they're really trying to do something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no one regrets going to the gym a hundred times. No. Even if the modality of working out isn't the one that they want to stay with forever. No one regrets trying a new sport. No one regrets becoming more or trying to become more than they are today. You're so right, yeah, ambitious mistakes are so much better than sloth like once. This is obsession that you have, and I say the word obsession deliberately, because Zach Pogrob and I hope I say that right, I'm always Pogrob- Okay, you know I made the mistake for a year and then he was like dude, I have to tell you it's not Pogrob, it's Pogrob, oh no, and I'm like dude, why don't you tell me earlier? He's like, yeah, it's all good, but, zach, I love you and we know it's Pogrob.
Speaker 1:We know now. We know now, and so he's obsessed with this concept of obsession and I think it's beautifully archetyped in you and in what you're doing and it's very cool to see and you know when. When I look at when you first interviewed Zach, or when you first interviewed Dickie Bush and Ali Adol even and Chris Williams, you've had an eye for catching talent before talent has exploded. Yeah, Do you? Is there, is there something there? Do you think it's just doing so many episodes?
Speaker 2:that it doesn't have to do with the podcast. Yeah, it's. It's within me and I can't take credit for it. I was 13 years old writing a blog post about Gary Vaynerchuk in 2009 when he had a Wine Library TV show on YouTube. Three years ago. Right, I'm a 13 year old kid watching Wine Library TV and writing about it and showing my mom like no one knew who Gary Vaynerchuk was. Why were you watching that? Because I could tell or knew from someone else that he knew how to market and I could see that he had a love for life and an enjoyment. And if you look at like what I'm interested in today, it's very similar and I can't credit the podcast. I can't credit anything other than it's in me. I just know if somebody is acting from a place of love in their soul's mission and I could sense it, and I could sense it since I was 13 and that ability to spot talent has served me really well. Right, like the fact that, like, some of these people are my friends and some of these people I could just hit up come from the fact that I had them on the podcast before people knew who they were, and so it's not everything. Like I just I probably just have had a lot of reps in business, like not business per se, but like watching business content or like writing. It's just like these few modalities where I just have a sense for like this is what great looks like and I could see people who have great before other people notice them as great.
Speaker 1:The why I started the question with obsession is because I was curious if obsession was the thing that you saw, but it seems like it's love.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's a great, great outlook, and it's why if someone's obsessed with something, it's almost like they are one with that thing, which is love what yeah? That's love. Yeah, love is when you and that's funny one person or one thing are combined. There's no difference between Michael Jordan and basketball when he's playing it at the highest level. There's no difference between Joe Rogan and a podcast. Joe Rogan is the podcast. He's one with the flow of life, and so those who are obsessed, or those who are living in their obsession, are also living in their love.
Speaker 1:It's so cool to see. I mean, when I was prepping for my episode with Zach, I realized that great episode, by the way everyone should check that out.
Speaker 2:I appreciate that, thank you.
Speaker 1:It really does mean a lot. We talked about you a fair bit, but one thing in that episode that are in prep for that episode that I realized was you connected Zach with Hunter Weiss and Dylan Jarden. Thank you, and that ended up being the impotence. Impotence, I think it's the right word.
Speaker 2:We'll go with it.
Speaker 1:Of a friendship that sparked all of this stuff on the Internet. That will forever ripple through time. And if people don't know, look up the animations that Zach's doing and it's crazy to see how much that has almost changed the Internet as a whole from it's mind blowing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it really is, and it it's like I didn't expect that to happen. I just saw three people who I loved separately and wanted to just bring them together, and when that happened, magic happened and they all benefited from it in the form of friendship, in the form of growth on social media, in the form of just more connections out into the world. And I love that. And I don't take credit for that. I just take credit for witnessing and seeing that those people needed to be together and that they needed to meet each other. Who knows, they could have met each other and hated each other. I just knew the likelihood of that was where. I assumed it was very low. And yeah, man, I think, like what they've reflected in me is like part of your power is connecting and connecting people, connecting ideas, whatever it is. And I'm like, how do I water that If that's one of my gifts? Like let me try to get better at that skill. Let me try to pour and connect more people you know and so, or like, figure out what the best? I have this network of 400 plus podcast guests as well as listeners of the podcast. How do I connect more of everything? And to me that's exciting to think about how that best gets exploited over the next 10, 20, 30 years. But I'm excited to see how that plays out and I'm really grateful. To this day they're all friends and to this day they're all building things together in some sense and they got this beautiful office in New York.
Speaker 1:they're doing incredible things and it's really cool to see and it's cool to have that bird's eye view for you of like, almost like pride, of like look at these guys that when I first met, like you're seeing the growth of people in real time from what started as belief, because you had a feeling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's really well said. And I just remember feeling such warmth that like they went together, they, they built things together and that they're still friends this day, like to me. That fills me with so much warmth and so much joy. And the fact that we put different things in the group chat of different ideas and different plate. Should I try this? Should I try that? They tell me ideas for the podcast, danny? Why? Why are you doing this? You should be doing that and we each hold each other accountable to a higher standard and that is is very exciting, that when you find people who you can hold to a higher standard and that appreciate when you really look at them and say this person could be doing better, and that person doesn't take it as like screw, screw the person criticizing and said it's like thank you, I needed that, keep holding me to that standard, but to me that nothing is is more valuable than that and I'm I'm so grateful to have that in Hunter Dunn and Zach.
Speaker 1:That standard that, like your friends, hold you to. It's almost rare to find those people and would you say, now that your friends and the people you spend most of your time with have come from the podcast, oh, 1000%.
Speaker 2:I mean I can't think of a single person who I'm friends with and it hasn't. That person hasn't appeared on the podcast or we've done a podcast, or I mean there's very few people like my boy Kyle Fields is one of them who I sat next to on a plane four year old dude, just an absolute legend, probably the best looking guy in Austin, just an absolute legend and super wise. And I'm like yo, you should come on the podcast, you should come on the podcast and he's like. It's like whenever you're like there's no rush, whatever, we'll do it. And I just I have so much appreciation for for that guy, but also just for like for the podcast in general, for giving me the opportunities to connect with people on a deep level, because we don't have these deep conversations in general. I try to have them as much as I possibly can, but the podcast is the hub for so much goodness in my life.
Speaker 1:So, with having so many friends now in your life that either are creators or people just in that world, how has that upped your game? Because you know, we all know, that that quote you're the sum of five people you spend the most time with, and it's so, so true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's up my game so much. I mean, what what's interesting is that it now it it's like I've, so I have so many friends that it's like, how do I, how do I pour? into people as much as I want to when there's so many, you know it's not getting less, you know just growing, because one new amazing person leads to three more amazing people and it's like and each podcast guest has three people they love to see on the podcast. So right now I'm thinking about, like, how do I really make the most out of this and how do I give as much as I want to to everyone that who wants to receive from me?
Speaker 1:So I'm open to ideas and hearing from people who have a similar situation but it's funny, it's not an issue that many people have, but it's a real issue, especially when you do 400 podcasts and you make a good, good impression on people. And those are friendships that you want to water because they're with incredible people who are aligned with you in some way and that's why you had them on the podcast to begin with. And the podcast is a beautiful way to even water those friendships and bring them back on. And just because this conversation that we're doing right now is so rare, even between the best of friends, yes, and there's a beauty in it, yes, absolutely and and the abundant nature of it.
Speaker 2:And like the another thing the podcast has taught me is like win, win, win, meaning like when for myself, I'm loving the conversation or interview, when for the, the guests, they're loving it as well, and then when for the person listening. It's like if you create, create scenarios in your life that are win, win, win, I mean you're, you're going to win at life, right, the more people you help win and the more you feed yourself and other people, it's like, the better your life is. So to me it's like finding those win, win, win scenarios in other places are so, so important, like meditation, for example, is win, win, win, right. You meditate, you feel more at peace with yourself. You then can go into another interaction, helping someone else and and being more present with the other person because you meditated. So, like, where are the places you're win, win, win? Where are those? A?
Speaker 1:symmetrical returns. Yeah. It's really interesting. It's like the investment does not even come close to the the thing that you gain from it. So understanding and like picking those things out and starting to realize where those places are, because that's how the best investors think. So, taking that same principle and applying it in your life, with not just money but in relationships and the work that you do and food that you eat, all these things there is an asymmetrical return in some way, if you think about things correctly, and it's cool to see you start to apply that in not just the podcast but in all realms.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it it's funny that you use the example of an investor, because you're an investor in your own life, but we don't think of ourselves that way. You are investing in specific people and specific experiences and it's like how much of those did you choose? And that's what makes Austin such an amazing city is like so many people have chosen to invest their time here. So many people didn't get born here. They said I'm going to go to that place because I see the people there and I'd like to surround myself with them, and that creates a way different buy-in in terms of the interactions you have versus the city, where people get chosen to be in there and and that's exciting.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. I didn't think about that, but so true. It's one of the rare places that the majority of people here chose to be here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think, moving forward, more cities will be created by people who choose to be in those cities.
Speaker 1:And that's just like because things are going more and more remote and people can actually have that freedom to choose.
Speaker 2:And because the world getting more digital where you you didn't know what existed in other cities to the level that you know today. 50 years ago, you couldn't figure that out, you couldn't know what was in Austin.
Speaker 1:You couldn't know what was in Austin, you couldn't know that there was this beautiful gym podcast studio called Plunge Place. That existed, but you just heard about it on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and you're like. I want to experience that.
Speaker 1:So with the course, you just dropped the art of interviewing. What's something that is in that course that you think is important that we haven't spoke about today?
Speaker 2:I would say the the questions list I think is really impactful and that if you just take the questions list on its own and journal about 10 of those questions that hit you, I think it's easily worth the $300 investment. But that doesn't even get into. Like you take the questions list and then give them to other people, like ask some of those questions to your friends or your parents or your siblings and watch what happens. People open up in a way that you've never experienced before. I think like to me that's the exciting part of like take those questions on that list and actually do something with it and change the lives of yourself and the people around you.
Speaker 1:To me that I was, so I'm going to continue updating that and continuing to pour into that, but to me that that PDF alone is worth the price that's a hundred questions too, which is a fair more than more than there's at least 10 in there that will speak to you on a deep level, to want to journal about them, where there are some for you right now, when I ask what your favorites are, that come to mind.
Speaker 2:I've been asking if I should pray for you. What should I pray for?
Speaker 1:Mike Posner.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mike Posner said it originally like that I heard originally. And more recently I went to church and the pastor said at the end you know, if you could ask your friends or family if you could pray for them, what should they pray for? I just start bawling, crying my eyes out, because I'm like I've never asked my dad this. After 28 years of my life I've never asked him that question. I've never asked my mom this. I've never asked my grandparents. Yeah, that deep like feeling of selfishness is what came over me in that moment and I was just disappointed in myself and that led me to like bawl my eyes out for five to 10 minutes straight. And to me, that question is something I lean on after talking to people and really just as a way to get to know what's important to them, because we really don't know what's important to people until we ask, and I love asking that question. It's one of the best ways to see what's what's going on for somebody?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I feel like what surprised me the most after asking that question to so many different people is their response. A lot of them has been you should pray for clear vision for me, and that wouldn't have been something that I would have expected, but clear vision points to.
Speaker 1:That was my answer, really, yeah, I don't know if you saw my facial expression, but I was taken aback because it's clear. Clarity of the vision is exactly what my answer would have been.
Speaker 2:People don't know if what they're doing is the right thing, and I guess it's become part of my purpose to understand that you can't do it wrong and to help other people understand you can't do it wrong. You know how. You're on the right path, doing the right thing because you're doing it. Like really sit with that, like each moment is complete as it is. Each moment is perfect. What if you accepted that premise? You wouldn't have any doubt or worry that you were doing the right thing. Or you're doing the wrong thing because it couldn't be wrong, because you're doing it. So that's, that's one thing. But clear vision has surprised me and it's excited me that that's the problem people are facing over and over and over again, and I think, in a world of infinite options that becomes more apparent. Right, like, should I be doing this if my friend is doing that and that this is his result? He just sold his company for 30 million, so it's like what's your answer? What's my answer? Health of the people I love. I think that that gives me the baseline and base level of everything I do.
Speaker 1:Such an unselfish answer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's the truth, man, Like I'm so grateful for the health of my family and the health of my friends. And you know my friend Dom. He recently went to cardiac arrest and I went on a run with him the week prior and I was like this guy's an incredible shape and I come out of that retreat that we talked about and he's like I'm in a hospital bed and I almost died and I'm just like what Dom, of all people, and so that to me was just like a real eye opener for how precious this is, how, how for granted, you know we, or or just like how we just don't know, we just don't know what the future holds. So if we don't know what the future holds like, why not make the most of it out of every minute? Why not appreciate that every minute is perfect just the way it is? And why not live life with the understanding that if we can get the most out of other people and we can get the most out of ourselves, life's pretty good.
Speaker 1:That's beautiful. It's crazy the fragility of it all, but it also brings in the beauty of what we're doing right now, having this conversation, having this discourse. It's that perfection of the moment when you realize that there's a finite nature to it. It adds so much more of a value to this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's a great point. We constantly, you know, think about how can we live longer, how can we extend it's like, how can we just be with what is and accept what is, because it's perfect, even if it doesn't seem that way in the moment?
Speaker 1:Mr Dan Miranda, do you have a challenge to leave people with today?
Speaker 2:Love more, love more. Yeah. Like, how can you add or put a little bit of love into your life or in the lives of others? Start with yourself. If you feel devoid of love for yourself, and then just sprinkle in some love for other people, whether that's like a gift or a wink at someone in some small way. Just connect with humans, and when we really connect with humans, we love them.
Speaker 1:So beautiful and I so appreciate your kindness, the thoughtfulness, the awareness it all shines through and it's apparently a special dude and it was an honor to stay here, for I mean, like you said before, we could go for forever and it's too bad that we have a time limit on these things because there's so much that we could talk about and I so appreciate you spending the last hour 50 with me, dude, it's been an absolute pleasure and I'm so grateful you've created the space to make this happen.
Speaker 2:I'm excited to see more in person podcasts from you and I'm really appreciative for the moment and for you moving to Austin. I think I know it'll transform your life and I'm just curious and excited to see how.
Speaker 1:Thank you, brother, and I appreciate you laying the groundwork and the foundation to have a shining light, or a guiding light, of what this could be Like. You mentioned Chris Williamson being that person earlier that allows you to see that you can do this thing starting from zero, so providing that vision. For me and for so many other people who are thinking about getting in this space or who are already in this space, it's cool to see and it's more than appreciated. Much love, man, much love. Thank you guys for listening. Peace.
