How Extreme Ownership Will Change Your Life | Lewis Caralla

Coach Liu, it's an absolute pleasure to have you here today.

Yeah, thanks for having me Excited about it.

Me as well. I mean, I've seen your stuff online. You're such a great speaker and it's so cool to see the concepts that you're talking about with these young guys. Do you think that there's one that has had the biggest impact on them?

No, honestly, the impact that I probably have the most in is the one-on-one meetings in my office that no one will ever see. I think that's where Instagram's going to share those couple speeches I had at Georgia Tech for probably ever, but I mean, that's every day, that's been every day for eight years now of after every workout, after every lift. I like that, as being said, some are more fiery than others, but all of it's just from my heart and it's what I think they need to hear at that moment. And sometimes you're probably not going to hit every kid, but you might hit the kid that needs to hear it the most and I think that's the reason I do it.

So it's those meetings, those one-on-one meetings with guys, where you're just hearing them out, that has the biggest impact on them.

For sure. Yeah, a lot of these kids are going through stuff that no one will ever know about and they just see the product on the field and expect them to perform. But there's a lot of things that they're going through at home, on school, with girls, whoever. But life is happening on an everyday basis for these kids and I just try to be that constant guide for them, if they ever want to talk and feel safe coming in here.

It seems like that's something that's lacking for most guys. The age that we're in, with social media and just phones on our hip 24-7,. No one really has that. No one really gets that time to really talk things through.

Yeah, and no one wants to ask for any help either. It's always that it's that feeling of you don't have the time, or, oh, you won't care, man, I just need to fight through it. Or like, yeah, sure you do, but like there's also like there's stuff that you shouldn't hold in all the time either. It's not healthy to like not air out at times and express your frustrations and go to a place where you feel like you're not going to be judged or you're not going to. You know you're playing times not going to get affected by the person that's listening. It's just all that stuff goes into it, and that's why I love being a strength coach. I mean, I don't control the playing time, I control their effort, their heart, their toughness, their ability to want to play for each other and then keep it in a straight line towards their goal.

So when it comes to that like just getting through to guys, getting them to really buy in and believe in the message, having that time with them where you're just sitting down one on one and almost creating like a I want to say like a caring environment and making them understand that you care, it seems like it's this difference right between being a good guy and being a nice guy. Like the nice guy might make those lifts a little easier, but the good guy is going to make those lifts fucking hard but really care about them. Is it that? Is it being that guy that guys want to play for?

Yeah, I mean, in my opinion, if I were a player which I was I didn't want to listen to the guy that wasn't in the fire with us, like I didn't want to like if this guy was yelling at me and calling me names and stuff in front of everyone, and I know for a fact that he couldn't do what he's asking me to do.

I wouldn't like that.

So that's why I do every player's workout before they get here. Every day I challenge them on things that I did that I think they'll struggle with and it makes them want to push harder sometimes, like sometimes I'll have, you know, 225 rep max, but it might be testing that day, but I'll have a board that they all can sign if they beat my rep max that day, fighting them but also like just getting on their level more and then also like the interview that I do with them from the first month I ever get anywhere is just asking them questions about their life, Like they know that it's not like I'm here to just bark orders and make sure that they're doing everything. It's honestly like to figure out who they are, what they've been through and then like work with them to get them to a spot that they want to be.

Is that pretty unique for coaches? Cause it seems like it's something that you know, it doesn't take that much effort and makes a pretty big impact, but my intuition tells me that that's something that's kind of rare.

I would say it's fading big time. There used to be a lot more and you never heard about them because that's not what they were in it for. A lot of my mentors were like that, which is why I'm lucky that I got to learn from great people, but the fact is there's too many people right now in this profession. First of all, strength coaches. They all are so critical of the other strength coaches out there and they always want to like throw shade at people for no reason. That it's just their own insecurities. They're all just like hating for no reason. But if they really sat down and talked to those people, they would never do that. So there's a lot of that. There's no transparency. It's like he does it that way, he does it that way. Both works If you believe in it. I believe the kids will, and I just feel like it's becoming too business-like or it's too political, or you know it's just becoming, you know, not meaningful relationships are happening anymore, and that's the exact opposite reason of why I got into this.

Why do you think? Why is that?

It takes effort, it takes time and it's not easy. And then it's not easy dealing with all their emotions when they don't get their way and so if you're not close to them, they're never gonna come to you. So that's easy too. If you don't like a kid, you can cut them. That's easy too. But like but dealing with a kid, that's like struggling and really has a messed up home life and digging into, like giving them a second chance and then teaching them how to not do it again. Yeah, that's extra effort on your part and it's not being lazy and it's the most impactful like thing you can do as a coach, in my opinion.

It's why I love your message so much is because you're stressing this idea of the obstacle being the way and having guys understand that, like these failures and these things in your life that maybe you can't control, they can be the catalyst of this incredible success for you. And I think that having hearing that and like knowing that you know these challenges are a test and they're gonna be the thing that propels you forward. If you put that energy in the right way, it can change your life, like just it's so simple but it's so true.

Yeah, a lot of kids don't wanna listen to the answers or the test until the test comes. And you're giving them the whole year, the whole week, the whole month and then the test comes and they fail. It's because they're not listening, it's because they're not caring, it's because you're not picking up on them not caring, it's because you're not. You're beating them down and you're gonna work out and never putting your arm around them at the end of the day or texting them later that night Like you just think it's gonna work because you feel like it should work. It's not what they feel like. So I had to learn that early on in my career that just because I think it's gonna be perfect and it's gonna be this magical program, doesn't mean every kid's gonna love it, doesn't mean every kid's gonna buy in. You know you gotta dig into those kids that really don't buy in and get them on board in your own way. And that's different for every coach in America and every situation, but the ones that I've had to deal with, especially this year, I've had to individualize my plan more than ever to get through to kids, just to their heart, and make them actually wanna work, not just because you're telling them, but because they feel like they owe it to their potential.

That extreme ownership approach and like understanding that you know if they fail it's in some way on me because I failed them. How big do you think that that has played in success in having guys respond to you, cause it seems like guys want. Guys love that when the coach takes on some responsibility with them 100% Like there's.

I don't think I would have the relationship I have with kids 10 years later, five years later, If I never felt like I could, just, you know, be on their level. Like I said before, like I literally like torture myself, Like I really like I cause a lot of pain to myself through workouts and these kids sometimes take on like a psycho, Like they're like how did you like, why did you know? You got nothing to train for. Yeah, you're right, I really don't have anything to train for except keep reaching my potential, keep inspiring myself to inspire others, and I feel like I don't even have the right to speak to these kids if I'm not doing what they're doing. I don't want to talk to them if I don't feel worthy of it, and I'm not going to say anything that I wouldn't do myself.

It holds you so accountable, right? I mean, I see it with the podcast. When you have this platform and you have other people who are listening to you, it's that it makes you level up your game. It makes you want to be that guy who's putting in the work that no one else is putting in, because it gives you a sense of internal I don't want to say validation, but authority that you know I I can speak on this because I'm speaking from a place of actually fucking doing it.

That's right. And my boss, one of my mentors growing up, he we were running around the track one day in Mississippi and he asked me he goes what do you think your purpose is that? And this was back in 2009 and I'm like, honestly, coach, I really think my purpose is just to help people and however, that looks. I'm not sure yet, but I just feel like this, this profession that I'm in, gives me the the right platform to do that, and Whether it's social media or just in our weight room every day, or whether it's in staff meetings or whether it's on the field, it doesn't matter. It's just I feel like I found my, my safe haven of my platform, that I can really get to people.

Purpose is an interesting conversation because One when you have that purpose, it enables you to work harder and like To avoid a lot of that cheap dopamine stuff that that's getting thrown at you, but it's not the easiest thing to find. To find that purpose, to find what you're feeling called to do. Is that something you think about with, with your guys, like how you can make them feel like Everything that they're doing has a purpose and is moving them in the right direction?

I think Like a lot of people get like fooled by their purpose a lot, because a lot of times they think they're on the right track which they might be but then a whole bunch of roadblocks get in their way and they're like this can't be right, like I Can do this and oh well, probably wasn't meant to be, like it might be like my profession alone and my playing career, completely transparent the same. I Love football my whole life. I played through college, but my college career was anything but easy and like a clear. It was Get injured, get injured, get injured, transfer, first team, all conference, all conference, like that. That was the route and took like four years with a red shirt to school, my first touchdown in college and that's what I tell these guys all the time. I'm like I was always good enough. It was just the adversity that showed up. I never backed down from and I I found a way because I truly did believe I was supposed to be doing that. And that's hard because when you're not that confident in yourself, you will give up on your purpose. I just felt like in this profession that I'm in, I once I found like why I was doing it, like to be there for the kids and to push my own self to inspire other people. I Never wanted to give up and I got, and I got fired. I got fired. All this stuff or I got let go. It's just all this. All these things happen. But and then you get national strength, go to the year and then you, you know. You never know, it's just. You got to believe in yourself when everything else in your life is not going well.

Yeah, it's. It's an interesting thing, belief, right, because you hear two camps on it. You hear the people who say you need to develop a stack of proof that you are this person that you say you are, and then here, here, the other people saying that, like you need to have that belief in order to work hard so that you because if you don't have that belief you won't work hard, because If doesn't feel like this, something you can actually accomplish, how do you think we, we should think about belief?

I Just feel like the hardest thing to practice is patience, and and the hardest thing to develop is faith, because most of the time in life, you're not going to get your way.

In fact, that's why a lot of people don't believe anymore. That's why a lot of people are depressed.

That's why a lot of people are anxious and nervous and all this stuff and I Can't say that I was ever out of that or not in that boat before as well. But I believe purpose creates doubt. I believe purpose goes back to belief. So, like what, you have to choose one and you're either gonna doubt it or you're gonna believe it. I feel like if you believe it, more often than not, you're gonna end up finding it and then, once you find it, it doesn't matter what happens to you anymore. It really doesn't you're gonna keep going. It's just that, that teetering line of Can I believe more than I can doubt or am I gonna doubt more than I believe? And if I doubt more than I believe, I don't know where I'm going and I still don't like some people just get lost forever.

I believe more than you doubt, man, that's so powerful. I mean, it reminds me of this guy, this rapper, russ, who he is an Atlanta guy, who he dropped 13 albums with nobody listening and just kept going and going and going and had this almost like delusional self-belief and Then really decided he's gonna drop a song a week Until he gets x outcome. And he wasn't gonna stop. He signed a contract to himself and Then it popped and it worked. Wow, and it's from that belief over the over doubt and it's. It seems like there's very few people in life that fail when they do things right.

Yeah, I completely agree. That's why I told the team yesterday. I said it's great to show urgency after a loss. It really is, but the most important urgency you'll ever show in your life is after a win, and If you, if you do not show urgency at the highest level after you succeed, you're gonna fail. And it's just the truth. I mean, everyone coasts after they win, or they get passed on the back or people tell them how good they are, and all this stuff. That's the key ingredient to failure, in my opinion, and the well-managed failure that you have in life, that those are the people that succeed. Like we lost five in a row just just now. Like our team is, you know, brand new. We're all trying to figure it out, but we lost five in a row. That's not easy, for I don't care who you are. And then we win. It's like so what's that say? It says we're not falling apart. It says we care still. It says we're still practicing. Like we either we were 7 and 0 or 2 and 5. Nothing changes based on the results. You just keep believing. You keep doing your job like that. Look, I took the same energy from the jobs that I got let go. At that I got the national coach of the year at. I never changed. I just kept believing. I never did anything different. I give that same amount of effort the same place as I've been.

The adults.

I can't control what happens on the field. I get pinned to it and I get fired for it, but I can't control it. So what can I control? The attitudes of the kids that aren't playing, the belief in the team before they play, the one-on-one relationships I have when kids are down, the effort that the kids are showing in the weight room? Like I have all that in my hand and if that's all I can control, that's fine. I'm good with that. I just got to learn to live with the results.

You have to. I'm putting trying to put myself in your shoes right now and you know you lose five straight games and I've been a part of of locker rooms where you know things start to divide. Guys start to not, they start to lose trust, they start to stop caring. It's not an easy thing to keep those guys bought in 100%.

I mean we have so many locker room doubters and people talking in corners and there's all that stuff. Every, every team that I've been on that has lost a Consistent amount. That's the only thing that happens. I mean everyone's, it's everyone else's fault, it's the coaches, it's it's it's the play calling, it's the Players that don't buy in, it's the whatever. It all comes back. But then if you win no, that's the problem, that's in your mind. And then put deodorant over that stink all of a sudden and you don't smell it. It's like. It's just. It's funny how things work. But once you get momentum, like I said, the hardest thing to get is momentum. Don't show less urgency now you know like, why would you do the warm-up with a half effort? Why would you watch film half effort? Why would you not take care of your body more this week than ever? Like, keep the momentum. Like. That's how you, that's how you win, that's how you consistent winner. I.

Love this conversation because all these things were saying and that especially it translates to everything you think about habits and the direction you're moving in, like everything's momentum. You see it with diet, you see it with With how much work you're putting in in the gym or anything. It's all momentum and keeping that good momentum it's everything.

It's, it's, it's seriously everything. And then the most important part of this game, and really every sport, is I had a lift one year. It was called the momentum breaker lift, so we would do like you know, the guys would be taking them through their warm-up and they start their lifts and everyone's going then the whistle would blow and everyone outside immediately Like what's going on now? Well, what's coach got? So we go out there, we do like 10 push-ups, you know, and we go back in All right, regain the momentum. It's just like a turnover get it back, let's go. Get it going. Music back on, let's hit it, mm-hmm. Whistle blows lap around the field, like you just got to get it back in your mind of things are gonna happen. Don't let it take your momentum, don't let it take you off your track that you're going for it. Don't let it. Don't let it ruin your dream, because you can still win. You just got to keep working on it.

Yeah, but like that I love that concept, because getting that momentum back is no easy feat. It's a and I want to say the only answer is just To start like, to just try start moving in that direction. It seems like there's no secret sauce there, it's just put in the word and encourage each other. Encouraging. You show it. I mean I've thought about this a lot. I mean I'm a huge University of Miami football fan and that's my alum, that's where I went to school and you know we've we've had some up and downs and I've thought a lot about, like, the good teams versus bad teams and the culture there. Having been around a lot of locker rooms, is it an apparent difference there between Teams that have success that you've been around versus the teams that that struggle?

Um, sometimes, yeah, every every situation is different. Like there are teams that I have been on that we were terrible and the culture was also a mess. You- know I just it was a rocky. The whole thing was rocky and I was really there for 11 months, you know. So it was. I had a chance to even get going. But Then there, then there are times when you lose games and you have a great culture and you hold everyone accountable and you are disciplined and no one's ever late and no one ever misses. Like I can live with that, like that's, that's okay with me, because I, I know, you know, we're just missing a talent gap. At that point, you know, we're trying to get the kids that we need to beat teams. Like you know and I was at Georgia Tech Like people give us crap for not being that good, but people are quick to forget you took over an 11 year option system that had an O line the size of army and 13 running backs and Like we had no receivers and like, oh yeah, go beat Clemson now Go beat Miami, go beat all these teams that have been successfully recruiting for that type of offense for years. So, yeah, like Everything matters and the situation that you fall into matters, I just believe, no matter what your situation is, hold your guys accountable and be consistent about it.

It's such a hard position like being a coach and In this league Because there's such a fragility of your jobs. Like you just mentioned, you were out of program for 11 months and you can't even get going in an environment like that. How does that play with you, with your mind and with the work that you're putting in? How do you keep that that effort going when you know there's there's such a fragile nature to the job that you have and you have a family and all these things. It's like it's no easy thing to to know that the position you're in could be taken from you immediately.

It's the worst part of the job not even close. I mean I can't control any of it. I can't even control if the coach, you know, sometimes Just wants to make a decision, to make a move, what like it's up in the air at all times and the Reality is is, yes, I signed up for it, but that doesn't make it any easier. Like your wife's pregnant and you got to go. You know, tell her you just got let go and and we're doing two weeks and health insurance is also cutting off in two weeks. Like that's not fun and nobody nobody sees that, nobody cares, like nobody feels bad for you in the long run. Like as long as they're good You're, they don't care about you. You know, barely any people call you to really check on you. Most people don't mean it. And then the reality is is like no one's coming to save you, man, like no one's ever coming to help you, no one. Like there might be a few people you can really call in this life that you can actually count on. The rest will just be like well, I'll let you know if I hear anything and you'll never hear from them again. So like it's taught me a lot and it's honestly made me more valuable to help people and struggling like I. I don't think the things that have happened to me happen for no reason and I'm determined to make it that way too, because I feel like the hardest stuff that I've been through which, look, people got a much harder than me. But I do have a lot of real life experience that I believe I can relate to a lot of these kids on, and a lot of these kids need To hear it at a certain point in their life that they would have never heard it if a guy never went through it.

So no one's coming to save you. It's such an important note, it's it's everything I mean, like Running it through the filter of my own life. Understanding that concept is the one thing that's had probably the greatest impact on me, because you always, for some reason, especially when you're young, think that something's going to happen that's going to make everything click and someone's gonna come around and have that perfect offense for you guys and it's going to be smooth sailing. But understanding it's on you and everything's gonna come down to the amount of Responsibility you take and ownership you take. That's going to be the difference maker.

Exactly, and if you don't change, nothing changes. If you think someone's coming to save you like you're wrong, if you know, the sooner you realize that no one is coming, the sooner you'll do something about it. I mean, it's just, it's all the same message, it's just. I just wish kids would know that sooner. Like I wish they would understand that. Hey, man, right now, you got your laundry loop ready for you as soon as you get back to the building. You got your food ready in the nutrition center. You got your tutor ready if you're struggling in school. You got your coach ready to train you. You got your coach ready to get you out of bed and make sure you're on time, oh yeah, and to remind you to study and to hold your hand through all this stuff. And then what happens? As soon as you leave and get that degree, nobody is there for you. Maybe accept a few coaches that really care, honestly, but honestly, that's not common anymore either. Like they just end up circling around if they don't make it pro and come back because they don't know what to do, and that's sad to me. That's sad that they have no other plan, because it's still common that everyone just tries to make them a better player instead of a better person. Everyone just tries to teach them about the X's and O's instead of how to be a good person, like how to respond when you're in a fight with your wife and your kids are acting up oh, you're going to quit now, you're going to bail now. Like what is that? That's not a man. That's what I know. Like, no day is supposed to be perfect and if they are, appreciate them. Like everyone takes everything for granted until they lose it. I just don't. I want my impact, wherever I go, to just be man. That dude really tried to help us and that was it. Like I don't care the results like results are what they're going to be. I can control a little bit of that. They will never forget how much hard I tried to pour into their life and that's why they continue to reach back out and that's why they buy the book that I wrote years later and text me Like it. Just, you got to give them what you have and if you don't, you're holding back. The beauty in your position is that the gym is such an incredible metaphor for everything 100% Like the challenges that I put myself through just so I can put the players through. I mean, that's, that's life in a nutshell. Like I like so like there are times where I've lunged a mile without stopping and one of those in that moment like there's a lot of moments during that time but you think about everything. You really think about. God man, this is burning like hell right now and I don't like I'm not even one lap in, like I'm not even one lap in and I want to stop and I want to quit and it oh, I got too much to do. And oh, this is stupid, I don't need to do this. Or oh, no, no one else is doing this. Why should? All these thoughts are real and they all apply to real life. When you're going for something big, everyone wants to stare at the top of the mountain and get scared. Don't do that. It's one step. I got one step to take next, that's it. And yeah, it's going to hurt, but eventually it'll go numb and then I'll just be going and going and all of a sudden I lunged a mile. I'm not saying do that. Okay, that's honestly very dumb, but it makes me a better coach, it makes me more valuable through things that take a lot of thought and mindset with.

That's why I think David Goggins is enlightened in a way, because essentially what he's done is test the boundaries of that, test the boundaries of the mind in a similar way that a monk would, but with physical effort, and in that physical effort it almost supercharges that process of the lessons you learn and I've ran half marathons without training for that exact reason and you see it. You see exactly what you said. You get every sense of emotion and feelings and you hear the way your ego plays with you and all these things. In that time period and understanding that there's a quote from Miyamoto Musashi, the samurai, and it's when you know the way broadly, you see the way in all things and I think it's that exact concept there, right, it is like when you can understand that this is the natural process of the way your mind works, you begin to see that in every single thing that you do.

Yeah, I agree completely in it. You know David Goggins, he was a. I was in Michigan for three years and my head strength, though, somehow knew him and this is before anyone knew him and or they knew him. He just wasn't on Instagram yet. Oh he, he was just like around us all the time and you know he came to our bowl game and we were like in the same car, we were like work. You know, I Remember asking him a question one day. I was like when you're running that far like, and you have that much far to go and you're not even close and you're already hurting, like what do you? What goes through your mind? Like what is it that keeps you going? And he said I remember the one time I quit and how, how bad I felt and how Disgusted I felt myself. And then I also think about how soft people are these days and and that bothers me a lot to, and it just keeps me fueled like I'll.

I'll just outlast everyone.

that that's it, that's not talent. That's. That's what I'm gonna do, and that was back then, and now he's on a whole new level. So yeah, he's, he's amazing man.

He inspires me a lot and it's so powerful that that we just said about him. It's like I I think he talks about this thing called like the one-second decision, where it only takes one second to ruin everything, like you're in Buds and your training and you're in hell week and it sucks, and it only takes one second of doubt to give up on everything. And understanding how that plays to life is is crazy. And you mentioned something before. We hit record when I asked you what would make this a home run for you and you said help someone that's overthinking. Yeah, what made you say that?

Like I have a book called firelighters 365 and it's a. It's a different message of the day for the whole year, and One of one of the messages that I think are the most important ones are like you wouldn't have been born if you weren't ready. And I just feel like that is, that's everything. Because there's so many people right now that are like, well, why should I go for this? Or why, you know, I'm not qualified, or I now would just have to take so many years to get that done and I'm not at a stage right now where I can do that. I'll just keep doing what I'm doing. Well, by the end of life, you're gonna live with a lot of regret and it's gonna hit you one day and it's gonna be really sad because you had so much time. You had so much time to change it, and the reality is you wouldn't have been born if you weren't ready. So, like we're all here for a reason and everyone's got to figure that part out. But I do feel like we're supposed to do something special with our own potential, whether that's a podcast, whether that's being a strength coach, whether that's whatever we want to do. But I feel like what we give is always gonna get the most out of things, and it's not what we get in return, it's what we give. And how can we help people? Why are we here? These are questions that you just got to understand. They're supposed to be asked and if you're not asking them, I just feel like that whole message is for you. Stop over thinking. Over thinking is overrated. You can do it. You just got to take time to do it and you got to believe. You got to have faith in yourself, because I truly believe you wouldn't have been born if you weren't ready. It reminds me of this quote that I fell in love with the other day which is Make your mistakes out of ambition, not sloth.

And as I reflect on it, it's like everything that you regret are most of the Decisions that you make that you regret are from laziness, never from ambition. It's never from working your ass off at something and then it not working out and and you you feeling regret from it and you you feeling regret from that situation. You never do. You never work your ass off and regret it right, it's only the things on that you do out of laziness or sloth that you end up looking back at and being like fuck, could have been great.

Yeah, a lot of kids come in my office and you know they talk about not playing right. It's a very hard thing to accept when you feel like you're good enough and the coaches don't see it and they're just running on a hamster wheel out there every practice. So they're not in a good place mentally. But I always tell them when that happens okay, you can go out there and just go through the motion, that's fine, you can do that, nobody'll ever notice, nobody'll ever care. But you can also go out there and make it very awkward in the film room for these coaches that why aren't you playing like? This is what like? Why is he carving up our starting defense on scout team? Why? Why is this kid making interceptions on our starting quarterback on scout defense? Like it's all there every day? You're just choosing not to see it. So if that is the case, if you are going as hard as you can, if you are making these plays and making it awkward in the Film room, then at least you can sleep at night knowing it had nothing to do with what you could control.

Yeah, I mean, it's so true, right, and it goes back to the overthinking thing that we were saying before. If we have Almost at times that I find that, when I reflect back on, like my own playing days, it's the the fear of failure being greater than the desire to succeed that really holds you back. You're so afraid to make mistakes and to go, because when you go all out you're bound to make a few mistakes, and it's it's so easy to get consumed by that fear. Failure.

Yeah, you could say the same thing with playing to lose or playing not to lose and playing to win, like it's you could tell with teams. It's like I think we're playing not to lose, so we lose. You know, when you play to win, you win not all the time, but like when that's your mindset, when you feel like you should win, like you're supposed to win, like that's just in you, you have to win. I Mean more times than not, you win. You know. But when a collective unit goes out there and they're playing not to lose, I feel like the final product is lose. You know, you can't like playing at state was like one of the most dangerous ways to go through life. It's just like. It's scary.

I Think that's a beautiful place for us to end this conversation here, coach lose, or anything we haven't talked about today that you think is fundamental to the message you want to preach.

Oh yeah, I'll just add that there's a lot of people out there that are gonna say they want to lead. You know, I want to be a leader, or when I'm a senior I'm gonna be the leader or I'm gonna be the captain. But let me just explain something real quick. Like if you're work ethic and toughness and discipline and accountability, and Like confidence doesn't shine as a freshman and a sophomore and these things that are very valuable, they don't have your back. You're never gonna be a leader. Like age will never make you a leader.

It doesn't matter.

Where you're at. If you're an intern and you have work ethic, toughness, resilience, great attitude, I love you as an intern and I'm probably gonna try to hire you one day. But if you come in and you got this I'm an intern man, one day I'll I'll have my chance. I'm not gonna have a great attitude right now, though man, I got to do all these jobs You're never gonna get hired. You don't even have a chance. So I Just believe that, like, leadership has no age and no matter what stage of life that you're in, just just have that stuff, the substance, behind you, really speak for you, and then, when you do speak, it'll matter a lot more.

You can't turn it on. You always have to keep it on. So true, coach, who thank you so much for doing this. This was a Incredibly fun conversation and I would love to do this again when we have a little more time in the offseason.

Yeah, thanks for having me, and I appreciate you too.

Absolutely.