Deep Dive into Online Entrepreneurship with Colin Shipp

Hello and welcome back to the Alchemist Library podcast Today on the show we have on Colin Ship. Colin Ship is an internet marketer who has done some very cool things in the world of course creation. So in this episode we cover a plethora of topics, including Colin's backstory and some key lessons he learned to build the business into what it is today. So I'll leave it at that. Catch you guys inside Peace. Are you doing this work to?

facilitate growth or to become famous. Which is more important Getting or letting go?

Colin, thank you so much for being here today, excited to have you.

Right, of course, dude, pleasure to be here.

So I was thinking we'd start with a little backstory. Well, what do we need to know about you to make sense of all the stuff you're doing today?

Yeah, to be honest, man, it's been a wild ride and the honest answer is that it's been like almost 10 years of the making. So the reality is like I've never been big in the public eye, which has kind of been by design. I've never really tried to build a personal brand. I've done like some interviews here and there. I am a part of our communities, of which we can get it to later like our behind our paywalls and our customers and things like that. But I've never really until recently, felt it was the right time to, you know, really kind of actually quote unquote, speak out or actually, like you know, build a brand for myself and kind of share what I want to share. But yeah, dude, it's been. It's been a fun ride. Like I've been in the internet game for now building internet, mostly core space, kind of education-based businesses for the past now 10 years really. The past four years have been an acceleration, but the past 10 years of as a 20 year old kid trying to figure this shit out, and that's kind of been the wild ride. So is there anything you want to double click on specifically?

Yeah, so well. First of all, let's just talk about the personal brand side of things. So when Arlen connected us and he gave me a brief background of you and I tried to do the deep dive, I was perplexed why you? Why you didn't do anything in the social media realm? Was there any particular reason for that to start?

Yeah, two reasons. The first one is pretty big is that I really wanted to focus on actually getting tangible results before I would just start talking out on screen. So there's two ways that I see people do this in this space. It could be it doesn't matter if you're doing like building a podcast to get sponsors or if you're building a YouTube channel to sell merch or you're doing education-based business courses, consulting, whatever. I wanted to like make fucking money and figure this out. Before I was just the one who was doing the talking head shit. Now there's two ways to do it. Like I'm all four people that want to build like document as they build. There's totally a way to do it. I just didn't want to do that. I wanted to figure out how to actually build an education business, build a real team build and serve real customers before I just went and started talking theories and ideas and hypotheticals. So that is cool, like I do. You know people that love to just share the journey along the way from literally nothing like that might be your case. You know, like you're kind of just getting started with a lot of this stuff and sharing. I think there's a lot of value to resonating with that I just love to hear from people that. Or personally, I love the people just like fucking, come out of nowhere online that already like wait, I've already made X amount, I've already built a team this big, already serve this many customers. And I'm like, wait, who the fuck are you? Like I've never even heard of you. And to me that's always what I want. Like I've looked up to and admired. Is that so? That's why I never wanted to. And then the honest answer, like the confession I have to make, is like I was just busy, like we were just been building the past few years and I haven't really had time, as kind of the co-founder CEO role, to do the content. Like my partner in the business, he does the, the YouTube and the content. He was kind of the quote unquote face of the business and I was like, well, we have a face, I'm busy, we've got thousands of customers, we've got hundreds and thousands, millions of views, tons of revenue, all this stuff. I just had other things to do, so I was actually focused on building versus promoting and it doesn't seem like it was a priority because it didn't need to be like.

Why go like? Why would you even? Why now are you thinking about getting into the social media realm?

so I've always wanted to because I've always looked up to people to have a personal brand, like I've always. I've always wanted to. Just the time had to be right. And you know, for years and years I've always followed youtubers and people on Instagram and, you know, and just in our space and for me, I love like the education, like courses, info, marketing, space. I've always loved it. I love that I've bought endless amounts of courses. I've spent tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars on courses, masterminds and people that some people may call them scams. I call them like mentors and friends, because you can always learn something from someone and it's like I love that world. So I was always buying, consuming and watching and well, what are they like? If I look at the biggest guys in our space and not yours directly, but mine specifically and when Arlen just is a just so you can kind of get it in your head is like really they led with their personal brand and that was above all, and even our business, funny enough, by business partner name. It's Adam Enfroy, and if some of you people watch this probably have heard or seen that name on YouTube or on in articles or random headlines or on social media and we found that the simplest path to building a business is through people. People buy from people like the mr beast effect. That's yeah, it's not his name, but it's a guy, it's jimmy, it's a single person. And all the biggest people on youtube, instagram and even like larger massive companies like think of a, tesla or now twitter, elon musk it's a. It's a guy, it's one person. So we call this the brand of you. And the brand of you is just building your personal brand, meaning like your story, what you do, who you are, so it's pivotable within the business. So you're doing this like I don't. I don't want to have a branded thing that is, to this one specific little niche. Like what if it's I was in fitness or some shit like that? I'm not, but let's say I was talking about fitness. Well, what if, in five years, I just like I cannot be asked to talk about this shit anymore? It's like I'm over. I've said everything about macros and protein and pull-ups. I'm done. Well, if your business is like the pull-up guy, what are you gonna do? Like it's a tough way out, like you're kind of like, well, I built this audience of people, but like they don't really want to hear from me about this stuff. Well, they do, it's what you don't know, but they just doesn't make sense with the name. So that's really why I you know, the kind of the title loop here is like that was what I found the most sustainable way. I want to now start kind of building my brand, add it into the business. So we have add on my partner and then myself, as well as two personal brands of the business. So if one's working, two is better for different products, different audiences, different viewpoints. Because who he attracts his 37 year old dude wife lives in Michigan with his you know three dogs and has a much simpler life versus me 28. Building a different kind of business lives, a different lifestyle is going to attract a totally different person. But that's good, because who I'm going to track is gonna be different than him. So that's kind of the reason why now, hey, I want to have a lot to share, a lot of shit to talk about. But two is that's kind of what we see. The most sustainable path forward is like building brands and audiences with two faces and then adding in three, four, five as we grow.

I love that niche of one analogy that you're just saying with, like the, the macro's guy, and forever he is the macro guy. And I think Naval Ravikant has such an interesting perspective on this and he says the reason why we loved Bruce Lee and why he captivated so many people was because on one hand he was an actor, on the other hand he was a philosopher and then on top of that he was a martial artist and he was good at all three of those things. So anybody who's interested in one of those things, they like him. Anyone who's interested in two of those things, they like him a lot. And anyone who's interested in all three of those things, they worship him. And it's just such a cool perspective when you take this like holistic approach, like you were saying, it creates these almost like true fans.

We. That's why I see the future of business going is really and this is something that I'm like really, you know it's contrarian, a little bit of contrarian thought is like my view of business is that it's shifting towards communities, tribes and raving fans exclusively. Now, that's always been a thing. But the days of just running ads and running traffic and building offers and these like little gimmicky short term things are pretty much evaporating before our eyes like they're just in my world. I just watched them. That's not going to last long, so I'm a whole lot watch that offer run for six months. They're gone. That person's nowhere to be found. That person that when you saw all over the ads are gone. It's because they didn't build those raving, loyal fans based off of them, their story, their interests, their, their passions and just them, honestly just sharing what they believe and what they know and what they can teach, and that is, I think, the most sustainable. It's also the most like, the most natural, because you know, over the years I'll use Arlen again as example not to bring it up too much, but like he's pivoted a lot. I remember seeing some of his old ass videos from like when he was in college, like just randomly in youtube feed. This is like six, seven years ago. But like because he focused on his name and him, he was able to kind of transcend that in building. Yeah, he puts a muscle on the road, but he was able to transcend that and that's what we found works for us as well as like we were able to kind of pivot through a few things. We're still here and that's what I really want to, why I'm sitting in now, and I think that's why you know we call it the brand of you. That's the name that we gave it, like the coin. I just kind of pull that out of thin air. To be honest, there's no like scientific reason why I picked that name, but it really is like you are your brand and the people that follow you are your customers.

Maybe not now, but maybe in five years or 10 years, and that's really playing the long game this is a great thing to have the awareness of, especially from a marketers perspective, because if you're going to go out and market of products, understanding who who has that audience that is like those super fans are super engaged and then targeting those people to help promote your product, that can 10x everything like. It's an interesting thing with the podcast as well, and I thought we talked about Arlen a ton but I've had people on the podcast with 20x the following of Arlen but yet their Arlen's episode did 10x the listens that their episode did, because it's more of these like true fans thing and that perspective from a marketers point of view is such a good thing to just keep in mind. Has that been something you guys have thought about a lot?

pretty much exclusively. So we will get. Our channel is, you know, just someone starting out as big but, in the grand scheme of things, pretty small, like 150,000 subscribers, with, you know, four to 600,000 views a month. It generates, you know, multiple, multiple, hundreds of thousands, close to seven figures a month of revenue. So that is, you know a lot more. It's like it's like a dollar more than a dollar review, like, if you really look at it that way which is not normal, like it's not the, the, the, the view to actual revenue number is a lot higher. That's because we focus on building these people that become. They trust us, they believe in us, they want to buy from us. They, they, they believe the direction we're taking them, and it really just stem from building a personal brand. Now, I've been building, like you know, we call it internally, in a team and with Adam, we call it like the character of Adam and Freud. So it's like we built it, Like, yeah, it's like he's obviously that's who he is. But, like you know, we don't even go behind the scenes. He doesn't do behind the scenes videos. We've never done an Instagram story, not one time. We've never recorded anything behind the scenes, it's just been talking head style videos, our programs, our characters, our narratives, our storytelling. That's all been like architect we created the character so that we could have people that like, hey, this is our story, this is what we believe in, this is who we are. This is, instead of it just being a bunch of different people, it's just one person and that way, they can follow, build trust in that person, and that really, in our experience, is just stem to just building a more sustainable like kind of platform and it's kind of, yeah, we I always think of it like what's the best business move, not like, oh, what's the best content? Like you know, maybe you're focused. Like with the, with the podcast is like what makes the best episode, what's the best questions to ask? What should I ask Colin? That's going to like send down a great tract for the listener or the viewer and I think the same like what video, if we get 10,000 views, could drive possibly $50,000 in revenue, because we know that. I know and I believe in the best way to serve them is through the products. So, yeah, the videos are great, but like the best way if you buy the shit, because that's going to help you actually achieve your goal way faster than just watching the video. So how do we get them to take action?

So I want to return back to your story a little bit, because I feel like we miss some key parts of the story and we jumped right into the meat of it. So let's go back to how you got into this position Exactly.

Yeah. So I guess I'll go back to kind of, like you know, grew up in a very like is middle class to lower middle class, kind of like upbringing, as you could possibly imagine. Just simple. Both parents worked in the auto factory, grew up in like the suburbs of Detroit and you know, growing up I really never. Until I got to like high school or maybe like late middle school, I didn't really have a lot of like wealth around me. I didn't really see a lot of money. I just, like you know it always be great, we never missed a meal, but we didn't really have everything. We didn't take the fanciest trip, we didn't have the nicest car, your house was just kind of small on average, it just did the job. And then I got into high school and I was the terrible student, awful student, like 1.8 GPA If I went to a private Catholic school. So we basically paid to get out Like I basically just I'm paying the tuition. So, like you know what, you can just graduate, it's fine, and so never was really good at student. But the one thing I took away from that experience which will answer this question is I went to a school that cost $15,000 a year for high school so I was surrounded by a ton of rich kids. Now, at the time I didn't necessarily have that concept, but I could tell I had friends. I'm like, so you have five cars and your house is like six or seven times the size of mine. Huh, interesting, something's not like quite adding up. I'm like you know we don't have that yet. I'm like sitting in class with you and I like hang out with you and you're like live a totally different life. So it kind of started to plant the seed of like huh, so there's a lot of wealth out there. Clearly I don't want schools, not the way, and I'd always kind of see like none of the people that I went to school. I'd like, what do they do? It's like, outside of maybe being a surgeon, they always like owned a business, like it was a car dealership, or they owned a law firm, or they started this thing, or it was always something. It was never just like I work here Very, very rarely I can, extremely rarely, was that the case? Or they own a construction company. I'm like, oh, a construction company. I'm like, oh, that's interesting. And they were all entrepreneurs, they were all owners. That was the biggest thing I took away and that led me down a really interesting path of like I couldn't get into college. I didn't have the good enough grades. I was like, what the fuck am I gonna do? Like I don't really have an option. That is the typical path, the path my parents wanted me to go down, the path society ultimately kind of pushes us down to go down less now. But in 2012, 2011, it was like you do that Cause social media was a bit primitive then. There wasn't like all like this episode would have never existed. There's no way. How do you found it? No video, there's no clips. There's literally no way to find it. So that was kind of the path I was. I didn't know where to go. I didn't really have a path to go down and what really kind of sparked my career has actually got into sales, so got a graduate of high school, got out of that and until then I never had any like actual taste of entrepreneurship or having success. I was just like, oh, it'd be cool to be rich. I really want to. I really have big ambitions, but I don't really have any. There's no how, there's no like meat to this fucking like thing I want to do and the reality is, I got into selling cut-co-knives and you know what those are. Do you know that?

Slightly familiar with them.

I think so. Yeah, so they've changed over the years. They're probably similar to what it was, probably similar now to what it was then. And it's kind of like it's not door-to-door per se, but like, basically you get recruited to basically sell to your parents, your friends' parents and family and shit like that. That's basically who you sell to. And basically, from second one, the second I stepped into training, it was like, oh, this is life. It's like, oh, I get it Okay. Oh, sales transactions, business persuasion, oh, making money, oh okay, this is real. The stuff in math and all this shit made no sense and I did really well. From basically from a failing student to making $40,000 in like three and a half months, as a 17 year old, I was like changed my entire world. I changed my entire perspective. What was possible? It wasn't. And you know, the main thing is like I learned a lot through that experience. That carried over. Like from that moment on it was like, okay, entrepreneurship is on the cards, that is what's gonna happen. I don't know what version. What's gonna look like, is gonna be this thing, that thing. I had no idea at this point, but at that point I knew I can make shit happen. I can figure this out. I do have the skills, I do have the confidence, I do have a way to make this work. So from there there's a long journey we can get into. But ultimately that was kind of what planted the seed of entrepreneurship. And then let's fast forward a couple of years to more relevancy is like I really got into online stuff in around 2014. And 2014,. I had a failed business with Cutco, so I had an office with them. It was kind of like a sales manager, that kind of whole deal, and that business failed miserably, like miserably failed, was in a massive amount of debt. It just was a really honestly, just a bad personal and like business situation. But I didn't really know what to do from there. But I kind of stumbled into the internet marketing, the dark end of the internet marketing world. I'm talking like promoting MLMs online through like cold email, like really primitive shit. Now you'd be like, wait, that's not effective. I know it wasn't effective them either, but it is what it is and that was the starting point. Honestly, it was like getting into that. It opened my eyes and it was a simple concept of one to many and up until then everything was one to one. One to one, sales one to one, recruiting one to one, interviews one to one, this one to one that I was like, wait, you can send an email and get people to sign up for a webinar at scale like a thousand people at one time listening to you pitch. I'm like. I was like, wow, imagine if I had a thousand people watching me do a presentation right now. Holy shit, I'm like it kind of like it's so simple now, but looking at the time, I was like this is nuts. There's no way that this work, because this is again early internet days. This is like I'm 20 and I'm like not that much older than you, but a little bit enough to where the speed of the internet where when you were, you know it's just rapidly changed and that was the eye opening moment is that one to many concept? And then from there it was kind of like that was it. I was like I'm obsessed, I'm hooked. I'm going to figure this out. The difference is this Most people and I recommend this personally is like you usually will be you have a skill, you have your personal trainer, your videographer. You're good at this one skill. You've had this experience in college. You did this thing. I only was obsessed with making money, so I only knew one thing. I've only thought about, studied about, focused on one thing making money. I didn't like, oh, let's go be a trainer and try to figure this thing out. And I love fitness and getting big or getting fit or whatever. Or even like I wasn't into dating or anything like all the stuff that you would think of be a logical business thing. Take your passion, turn it into a business. That wasn't for me. Mine was. I only am obsessed with how to make money online. So what else am I going to do? And it just set me down a tirade for the next three years of really trying to understand everything from SEO, from YouTube to Facebook ads, to copywriting, to team building. To like I was just I was an expert of nothing in a, just a fucking dilaton and a bunch of random stuff. Like just do, do, do, do, do, like a minor expert and everything you could think of online, and that was really what planted the seed. So really you know, to kind of tie it back in for you, like that was for three years or three, four years of just obsessively learning, figuring things out, seeing what works, what doesn't, what are other people doing, what are they not doing? Who's the gurus, who's not the gurus, who's actually valuable? And then you know it took about three years, two and a half three years to really get any meaningful result so a lot longer than most people Like. I have some friends now that, like one year in, they're like, yeah, I'm making six figures a month. I'm like, too, it took me like six years, it took me like significantly longer to have any kind of traction, like that, and that was really you know and that kind of. As to the story where now you know eight, nine years in, I am like, well, that's a fucking fascinating. You're probably right, that's an interesting story, but it's like I've just been not talking about it, kind of just building in the background, and I was so focused on getting those results just how to make money and how do I teach it. Because I love teaching, I love talking, I love explaining, I love breaking things down, I love teaching people who are beginners, I love sharing my experiences, what's worked, what hasn't, and you know, really, until about 2018, things started to pick up a little bit more and then, really, 2020 was when we really exploded, like this current business I have right now I partner Adam. We started going like 2020 Ashgiver take, and from 2020 till now has been explosive. It was basically five years of or, yeah, four or five years building up to 2020 to really just explode these past three and a half years.

And was there any particular reason for that?

Or was it just the compound interest of showing up every day focused for Compound and looking back, I felt behind, which is, you've got to confess, on that too, it was like I felt super behind, like insanely behind, cause I would look at people that are. You know, I was 22, 23, 24, and I was looking at people some, not everybody, but people. I age, I'm like man. They're already crushing it and I'm still I'm doing. Okay, I'm making like maybe 75 to 120 grand online doing some consulting, freelance, this thing, like kind of just random stuff all in the internet business realm. It was good, but I'm like man, but they're making like like 2 million, 3 million, 10 million in some cases. So I felt like almost like an imposter. In a lot of ways, I felt way, way behind. Even though you look at the outside, I was like 22 years old, living in Bali, kind of living a dream life. Inside I was like I'm fucking so far behind, like I am just people are so far ahead of me and I'm like how am I ever going to catch up? And that compound interest paid, it just paid its dues. Like I put a ton of dues in, paid a lot of rent to get to where I am now, and that was really. It kind of was a slingshot. It was like 2020, then basically 10 X. Everything Like each year is like tripled since then.

It's a great reminder of the compound effect, because that is such a powerful tool and something with the podcasts I like to try to keep in mind. But, with that said, when it comes to feeling like an imposter, feeling like you're behind, do you think that's a side effect of just being driven and having big ambitions, or do you think you were actually behind at that point? Like which one of those two do you think it was?

It's both, but I would, I'll have to be honest it's definitely more. The comparison, comparison will eat us all live if we let it. It'll just just nip at us in our sleep. It'll keep us up at night. It'll cause us to make decisions, say things you don't believe in, say things we don't want to do, do things you don't want to do. Have friends we don't want to have. Date people we don't want to date. And that was a big part of it. Because you know what, when I look at someone who's like I mean this has happened recently where you know they make a million dollars in a year, they're like that's amazing. I'm like could've been two, fuck. I'm like that's my. I don't even think about oh, I did great, yay, good, good job, colin. I'm like could've been double First thought and yes, does that cause a little bit of stress? Does it make you not feel good about yourself? It can, but it also allows you to have a bigger impact. Because when we're doing 10 million, like could've been 20, 20 could've been 40, helped a thousand people, could've been 2000, helped 2000,. Could've been four it's like could've done two podcasts a week, should've been four. It's like that extra little effort, that extra little push is really what's allowed, that you know that confidence to come do, but it really allowed. You know comparison will just allow you to if you are motivated. It will keep you nipping at your heels so you don't get content, even though I don't think it's healthy, but it works for me and I always find that you really wanna find what works for you as the individual, no matter if that's quote unquote healthy or not. Like my, I don't have a morning routine. I wake up, I drink caffeine, I drink water and I start the day. I don't meditate, I don't do this. I don't go in the cold and I don't go to the gym. I don't do all this shit. I wake up and go. That works for me. Same thing with you know when it turns to like how I consume information. Whatever works for me works for me, and for me it's just having this really intense self-criticism that, for me, becomes constructive and productive, because it allows me to do more, create more output, help more people, create better products, make better content, hire the right people. So yeah, does it get annoying, but it works.

Do you think there's a point that you will be satisfied, that you think enough will be enough?

You know I thought about that a lot and every time the goalpost moves. So for me it's interesting. Like I'm really I've been into, like you know, for example, like fashion and clothing and traveling for years and years and years. Like behind the scenes, like I don't have, like I never bought nice things to show them off. I bought nice things to wear them by myself or like with my girlfriend or just hanging out Like. I've always enjoyed that and I found that I love luxurious experiences as part one, part two, part of like. For me and this is not advice by any means, because this is not work for everybody, but I love pushing the boundaries of in personal life and professional life, meaning well, if I wanna like have this thing, I wanna push to be able to afford that thing, and even if it's a stretch, because it'll make me make it back more. Like you can't be having a crazy lifestyle if you're not making it every single month. It's impossible. You're at almost any scale. You're running out of money and for me that's the game I like to play as money. I like business and the only scorecard of business is money Like there's really and it's it can come off across as like, oh, that's pretty like you know, greedy or egotistical or whatever, but it's just the scorecard for the thing I love. Like there's no way around it, like I don't really care if I'm yeah, I'll be healthy, but I don't care if I have a six pack, I just don't care. I could care less. I don't care if I have, you know, you know, four houses or I have all this free time. It's like it just doesn't bother me, like it doesn't really make me feel any better. So no, I don't think they'll ever quit. And I do get jealous when I see people that are like pretty content, like they're like they built a business, it's automated, they're making like a couple of million dollars a year or even like a few hundred grand a year and they're like intensely happy. I'm like I'm kind of, I'm a little jealous because I can never imagine that.

I think it comes down to what you love, right. Like if you love the business stuff, that's all that really matters. Like there's a perspective from Jordan Peterson that I really resonated with on this topic, and it's the fact that humans always need a mountain to climb or we fall into weird. We do weird things when we don't have something that we're climbing towards, and he argues that the peak human state is climbing up hill. Climbing up hill towards a goal, and even when you achieve that goal gotta be a higher goal. And what he was talking about was or the analogy he was making was with gold medal athletes and that they've worked their whole life for this one moment. And then they achieve this thing and then they're depressed after because they don't have any more mountains to climb, there's nothing else to do. And you see that same thing with CEOs who sell at their company and then like what the hell do I do with my time? So if you're playing like an infinite game which business is an infinite game and you love it, then who the hell cares, right?

I couldn't agree more. And the journey, as cheesy as it sounds like, it's all about the journey, like that's an act that I hate. That quote when I hear it and it's like it's overplay but there's so much truth to it. Because it's like it's like ah, yeah, there's a truth buried in there. That's like, yeah, especially as men. It's like it's interesting because our girlfriend doesn't. She thinks the opposite. Like literally the polar opposite is like mountain to climb. Like what the hell are you talking about? I don't want to climb any mountains, I want to enjoy, have fun, play. Like great opposite, it's perfect. And I'm like, if I don't have some, you know, if we have a month that we didn't grow, I'm like, ah, man, like we should have done this and this and this, and pushing it up the hill. And I think the part that's why I'm actually doing this sounds like I don't need to make the content, like I don't need to do this, I don't need to, you know, create content to generate more leads. Like, yeah, we'll do that, but it's not required. Like we're good, we'll grow regardless, it doesn't matter. And that is, you know, interesting take of like I'm stepping out of my current comfort zone and current, like you know, day to day, week to week, month to month routine to do something that could have a huge, huge impact and a big difference and is a big challenge. So I think that's that's up the mountain, like that's the Peterson nail the one in the head. That's like a good bit of view of the world and I don't think enough people do. I think there's an interesting world in our space of not just courses and info. Info guys is like in any of the social media world of like, say, you're 20 to 30 year old guy, you think the I see this all the time they think the mountains like oh, a millionaire. It's like well, them what. I can tell you that's not that interesting. You just have more taxes, you have more headache. You're used to living a certain way which you will never give up. Like, once you live a certain lifestyle, it's like I'm not going back, there's no way. So that means you're on the hook for making a lot of money for a really long time, a long time, basically till death. So if you want to spend a million dollars a year and you're, say, 25, and you want to spend $500 million and you die at 80, and then you take into account inflation, you're likely going to spend like $100 million. I know that might sound crazy, but if you do it long enough timeline, that's what's going to happen. So you better be ready to work and what we have yet to see is people that are really saying that's the mountain, like that's the peak life having the you know, having the fancy car, having the house, having the friend group, having the time frame, having XYZ thing. We've yet to see that play out till they are 80 years old, like there's not been a single person who's made a bunch of money in crypto or whatever, who's 80 years old, who's had it for 60 years, yet to happen. So we're in infancy of all this internet people making money through podcasting, through courses, through education, through social media. It's still early. Yeah, it's like five, 10 years, but it's not 100. So how do you know how this shit plays out? We don't and I think that's interesting of, like you know, having that thing. And even Jordan like I've been following Jordan Payson for years he doesn't need to do anything. He's almost died, like physically died multiple times from health reasons and he still is like someone can go back on tour. When's the book gonna get done? Who's the next podcast? Who's the next thing? He looks so beat down. He looks so old and beat down sometimes not cause he is old, cause he just works his face off. He just committed to what he's doing and he knows that if he stops and his brain gets timed to just swirl around and think and just sit with his own thoughts and hang out and do nothing, he'll just wilt away Just wilt away to nothing, and that's what you see with people, though, too, that, like when they retire and they're not sharp anymore, they're not using that mental muscle every day, you start to kind of atrophy.

It's like anything else, and we have this view Exactly, and imagine that happens with your 30.

Imagine your 30 and you have like $10 million and you're just like fucking doing nothing Like I've seen it happen. I've seen it like they just oh. I'm just gonna like live, I'm gonna travel, I'm gonna have fun, I'm gonna have a start, a family, like in five years. You're gonna be so bored you're not gonna are. You gonna be so like unskilled and unsatisfied in five years off. You're not gonna know what to do.

I wonder a lot of times like how those crypto kids are gonna end up like. It's something that's crossed my mind on a few occasions. But we have this view that, like retirement is cocktails on a beach, but that is a vacation. And after like two weeks you are like what the hell do I do with myself? And you like need things, you need purpose. Like that was something that the podcast taught me was that my whole life I played sports and then in college stopped playing sports and then I was a bit like what do I do with myself? And I thought I missed sports so much. But what I really missed was having something I was excited to work hard for. And then I learned that once I restarted the podcast and it's like I don't think people like to your point, realize enough that at the end of the day you need that thing, that thing that you're striving for. It's fundamental.

Yeah, I think it's extremely selfish. That's my take on it. I think that people that do that and that don't like me not doing, content me not being out there. I view it as selfish because I have something that someone can benefit from, so say it. I have an idea, I have something I wanna teach. Say it, speak up. And if you don't, I find this to be super self. Oh, I'm just gonna like you know, we've done well, I'm just gonna sit back and take it easy and coast. It's like I find that incredibly selfish and just not living your full potential, which will ultimately come back to bite you Somewhere or the other, whether it's you get lazy and atrophy, you get out of shape physically, mentally. You're not sharp anymore, you know. Let's say like one thing, too, is like I love to look at it. You brought up crypto, which is funny. I said it too. It's like I don't do any of that shit. I don't invest in a stock market. I don't have a single stock. I don't have any investment. I don't own a single piece of real estate. I have zero crypto and you don't have to log into that shit. I only focus on the business I have in front of me exclusively. Not every dime is in personal or the business nothing. So that is very that's the opposite of most people that would be in my spot. Oh, I got this thing and that thing and the other. It's like okay, but what is that? Buying that stock, gonna make a hundred million dollars? No. Is doing this crypto flip gonna make a hundred million dollars? No, well, maybe, but like one person probably gets it out of a billion. So no, what's the? What's the? Get rich for sure. What's the? Serve people for sure. What's the? Have the best life for sure. Focusing on the one thing you're obsessed with, that's it. Nothing else. Any deviation just is just delaying the inevitable. Like okay, great. So when I'm 40 and I'm hoping to God, my stock portfolio is doing well, or I could just focus on how do we make $10 million a year and how do we help 10,000 people, versus hoping the stock market goes up because of whoever's in the office, like that's. I just find that like. It's always felt as backwards to me and that's I was. You know, when I talked to you about that. They're like really shocked. Or like wait, you don't do anything. Like I'm. I don't do shit, I just work every day. That's the investment, the business, the team, the people, the products, the content me.

And with all your goals and this conversation we're having, without continuing to find bigger and bigger mountains. Have you thought about whether that voice in your head is you or your ego? Because I've thought about that at times. Like is my desire to grow the podcast and to do all these business stuff. Is that my ego telling me, like you should do this to feel admired, blah, blah, blah? Or is that what you actually want to do? And does it even matter which one it is?

Yeah, I view it this way. So my take on ego is that every person has been like, wired a bit differently so anyone can become anything they want, but there is still wiring that makes things easier or harder For me. I have a pretty much like zero end filter, like meaning there's not a goal that seems too big in my mind and I'll risk everything to get it. I'll risk every dollar right now, it's fine, I'll make it back, it's all good. So that mindset is something I've had forever. I've been broke multiple times like $100 in the bank, negative 30 sometimes, even like I've lost it all multiple times. So, and I was fine, I'm like, oh, whatever. And I've also been in really bad physical health and then I'm okay, I figured it out, it's all good and. But most people, like some of the things that have happened to me they would happen one time Like I'm never doing that again. And my ego, this voice in my head, this picture of myself that I have, that I project, is just naturally ridiculously big Like, and I think it's an asset versus a detriment. Yes, I have a lot of self-awareness of like okay, that was maybe the wrong thing to say. This doesn't make sense. I changed my mind about that. That's fine, but I think the ego is really what my ego of knowing that I can accomplish bigger and better and grander shit than anybody has helped a ton, whether I do it or not, to be determined, but the knowing that I'm going to that's the goal. So I've got a big shoes to fill.

I think it's her mosey who has that. It's a quote or he. I think he was quoting a study or something and they were saying the top three things that they found that all billionaires have in common, and the first one was superiority. Complex, and it's for the exact reason like you got to believe it to achieve it. But what I want to return back to. You said you've failed it a lot. You've had the hundred dollars in the bank and said, oh shit, like you've been at the bottom, do you have a favorite failure?

Yeah, I would say my favorite failure, the one that like hurt the most, was when I was. I thought that my future was going to be in music. So it's like an issue that we haven't talked about this. But because I didn't get into college with the awful 1.8, just shining GPA, I, over the course of high school, got really into electronic music, like obsessed with like Afrojack and Avicii and all these guys that were like the big DJs at the time and I've loved it. It was great and mostly because I loved the party that was a great time. So that was the lead into that. But what that term into is, I ended up going to night school for music during high school. So it's feeling out of school. Yet from seven to 11 PM three days a week was going to an hour drive each way to a studio in Detroit to learn how to produce music. So I clearly was capable of being a student of something, just not math, and that led to me getting really obsessed with music. So I did get into music school. I went to music school in Los Angeles. I did the cutco thing for the summer after high school. Then in October I went to Los Angeles to be. I literally packed my shit with 17 packed the car, drove out there, had a blind roommate that I never met and was 17 and going to this music school and that musical now is fairly big and a lot of really cool people have gone through that school. It's called icon collective. Really really awesome experience I had there and it was a school that wasn't school. That was like my first experience like info business essentially like it was basically, if you take an online course, you stick it in a classroom, that was it. And like that was basically it and the only grades were did you make a song? Like how did you finish the music theory part? Like there was no grades, like an official sense, and I thought I was my goal was to the next TSDO. Like I want to be rich and famous and big and this shit and that. That's always obsessed about that. And when that didn't happen, after two years of being there and I was just not even remotely close, I was just like nah. For many reasons. One, I really didn't like it. I didn't actually love music, I just wanted to be rich and famous. I just wanted to be building a business. I just loved the business. I didn't give a shit about the music, I just wanted to. I love the fact that you could be on stage and make 300 grand for an hour doing a show. That was like blew my mind, like that was the part that actually excited me. Not all this art is amazing. I don't give a shit about the art, I don't care what it sounds like, I just like that. There's 100,000 people here. That's fascinating. How do we all get here. How do we sell the tickets? What is the promotion like? How's the social media? Like? What venue did you pick? Why did you pick the venue? What did you wear? Like that was the part that got my gears going, but that was the favorite one, because that that showed me that I've business is the way to go for me. Like that, just not even a clear direction. Just, business is going to be what it is and it has to be that, because everything else to me is just unexciting, uninteresting, no fire towards it. I won't push through failures the same way, because I basically told everyone in my world that I'm going to move the LA, become the next big DJ. Well, that didn't happen. So that was a giant, giant tailble to my legs moment. Moving back home, to back to Michigan, after I told everybody and everyone I all my doubters in high school, everyone who doubted me growing up, family, even parents, in some case super supportive, but some case my mom was like this is not going to work and she just she's like no, no, and it was a. It was really humbling moment.

So you think the biggest reason that propelled you forward with just gaining that awareness of oh, it's not the music, it's this business type of stuff that I really enjoy Was that awareness, or was there something else there that flipped the light bulb?

Yeah, it was not, it was. I only know that, looking back in the moment, I still felt super lost, like in that in that time I still had no idea, like what was going to happen. I basically moved back and was pretty much just gearing up to, as I said, to open up an office with cut code, like to actually do that. I went back and went back to my roots, went back to what I know what acted, got me results. But I was still like, oh shit, I'm like confidence took a giant hit. I was kind of just personally not feeling good physically. I was like 40 pounds heavier than I am right now, like first time in my life since I was a little kid being overweight, like really, really just not in a good spot. So at the time it didn't, I didn't think it was business, I just thought I got to do anything besides what I was doing. It's only now, looking back, that that, oh yeah, that's what led me to move, instead of staying in LA and just like getting a job and music, just getting a job or whatever. It was like what's the most quickest, most direct path to get better, make more money? Figure out this entrepreneurship game. Oh, it's right back to what I know I can get results in, back to sales, back to managing figure that out. So it wasn't even like you know. That's how I know it was. Business was that is like, and that sounded exciting. Okay, now I can go and just make money and build a business and do this and do that, versus like being a studio bum, just like you know, making music, recording drums, being in the scene, I just didn't excite me and that. That's that kind of the tipping point.

So you mentioned that you were lost. You were 40 pounds overweight Once you got back. I think that there's so many people that are in that position who are feeling a bit directionless and they don't have this purpose for what they want to do and they don't really have a sense of how the hell to do anything Right. What allowed you to go from being lost to zero to 100 to what you're doing now, like crafting a vision for your life.

You have to craft a vision for where you want to go and what you want your life to look like. And you could be. It can be so extreme that it almost feels impossible because it likely is in the current state, but you have to be able to craft and cast that vision because you have to have something to shoot for and not a goal. I don't like goals that much because goals can, for me, can sometimes feel like a little bit limiting or it's like so rigid. I don't like rigidity. I don't. I like to just break rules and fucking cause chaos. So I just cast a vision and let that play out as it may. Like I knew what I wanted was to build, build a business. I wanted it to be online and I've always, always loved content and education. I never even thought about ecom, dropshipping, physical products, sponsorship. I never even thought about that. I was so focused on I love the courses that I bought. I love the info that I've read. I love the books that I've read. I love the teaching, I love the videos and the pot, all that stuff. I wanted to do that and I just cast the net of that. That's what I want to do. I didn't have any details. I didn't even know that my business partner we didn't even know each other, not even remotely close, like years apart. We, you know, there was no connected tissue to my life. Now is back then, except I wanted to do the same thing. So what was that vision? Built this literally, just like I wanted to be like those internet gurus you see their ads of. I wanted to be those guys like that that actually helped teach people how to like actually have success online. So our company vision and my vision is to arm the rebels. I love that slogan. Like I want to arm the rebels, the people that think like me, act like me, behave like me. It don't fit in with the norm. They're like I don't, that doesn't work for me. College doesn't make sense, getting a job here doesn't make sense, and that is like that's kind of the division I have been is like I want to be able to teach people how to actually find success In their business, and it's just online. That's what I know. So you could have an offline business, it doesn't matter, but that's what I know and that's what I was obsessed with and that was really the vision that I cast in like 2015, 2014, of like you know, this is. This is what I really enjoy, whether I can figure it out or not. I'm going to just keep trying till I do, and I think that helped a lot is knowing that the timeline is like I was 21 at the time, 20 was 20. And I knew that, like, however long it's going to take, it's how long it's going to take. It wasn't like if I'll do it for a year and if it doesn't work, I'll do this. It was like I'm just going to do it till it works. I'm just going to keep going, regardless of whatever is in between. If, even if I have to do work in the meantime or get a job here, do that, that's fine, but I'm still going to keep going.

That's such an important reframe, right Understanding that, like I, was like burning the boats, being like no, we're just, we're here till we make it work.

That's how I live. It's like I burn the boats everywhere I go. It's like there's no there like failures on an option. Like I will fail. But like failure to me is only if you quit, because if you're going to have failure years along the way, you're going to fail. But you are not a failure as an individual unless you just throw in the fucking towel.

That's it Absolutely. And the thing about that is most things are figureoutable. I don't even know if that's a real word, but you're able to figure out most things. You think when you are that kid in high school and you're 1.8 GPA, you think it's impossible to achieve X, y and Z. You think it's totally out of grasp.

But once you understand that, like you can figure out 99.9% of things or in the transformation to because I had to become someone different which is the biggest shit Like it wasn't I had to, it wasn't that I couldn't achieve it. The version of me back then could not have the one who was not productive, who did not have the understanding now, who did not have the wisdom I have now, who did not have the mindset or the skill set or the belief. That had to change. Because if that changes, like if you can change your internal reality, you can change your external reality. That's why I was talking about the start of the Alchemist Library for that exact reason.

Right, exactly. That's what an Alchemist is.

It's like that's, that's very. That's a simple version, but that's ultimately how you do it. Someone who's an Alchemist, that's how they view themselves and I think it really comes down to like you know, you're always going to have challenges in everything, but if you can play it as a game, how can you just just don't quit. Like, if you can make it a game, every little failure, everything here, every loss of money, every loss of a friendship or relationship or something, just doesn't work. Like you know, like, let's say, you're going to keep doing the podcast, but if you did 50 episodes and actually you have a mutual friend, we know him, Danny Miranda. We brought him up earlier. I've seen him do so many episodes. It's like most people, if not all, would have like already quit, Like to not have millions and millions of downloads a month and making millions of dollars for the podcast. He'll get there, I guarantee it now. Like, oh, he's already gone through this much shit. There's no way that in five years he's not one of the biggest ones, but five more years it might take. It might take literally this, a lot of this amount of execution for half a decade more. That is the difference right there, playing it as a game.

I've pondered the idea of why people are able to focus so hard on playing a video game and dedicate themselves to a video game for eight hours a day, every single day, and show up consistently at that game and when you look at the rest of their life it's like their life is in shambles. They're not doing good at school, whatever it may be, but yet they're able to say so consistent and disciplined, to showing up every day for that video game. And I think a lot of it is just understanding that games are fun and that games are. They have parameters, they have rules, they have ways to level up and if you just set your life in that way, then you're able to kind of allow it to be more flow and more exciting and more fun.

Yeah, I trick myself every day because I you know a lot of the stuff I have to do and the business is not inherently exciting. It's like it's not an inherently fun, like doing accounting stuff and managing teams and having meetings all day. Like I make it fun, but it's not fun by nature. You have to make it challenging. To make it entertaining, you have to make it something you want to do. And it's almost like hacking your own psychology, because if you don't find a way to make yourself enjoy the things you're doing, you'll ultimately burn out. So you have to make yourself enjoy them. How do you do that? Great question. You have to flip the basically flip the script on what it means to you. So what does this meeting mean to you? Instead of I got to talk to this fucking person again for an hour, it's like I get to talk to this person because they're helping me achieve my mission, vision and goals Great. And when you say that to yourself enough, you eventually like oh yeah, I need to talk to this person, versus like another meeting, god damn. Or like I got to edit this podcast, I got to do this thing again, or I got to email this thing, or whatever the thing is. And if you flip the script your head enough, it becomes second nature. You catch yourself before you even think it. You're like oh, not even. I'm not even going to grunt about this, I'm not even going to complain about this. I'm just going to be like because this person I've for the second time I've talked to him, or I talked to the president of our company, andrew. I talked to him probably like three or four times a day, but sometimes by the end of like the third or fourth call, it's like he probably do. I have to talk to Colin again, it's like. But no, we flip it. It's like because when we talk and communicate and work this thing out or figure out this problem or solve this, this road bump in the business, it equals more help for the customer, is better for the team, the team grows better, the business grows, things are smoother and it's flipping like oh yeah, there's a reason why, why, If you don't have a reason why you're going to, just why do anything? And you have to have micro, so why explain it? You have to have money. You can't just have this big oh, the vision to help fucking 50,000 people do whatever. That doesn't work Like. That doesn't that's, you need to have that, but that's not going to get you to do something on a Tuesday. Like it's just too, it's too far away. It's like you got to have this truncated Y I think that's what I call it, just like a truncated Y. Well, what's the? If you take your wine, you chunk it down to like the hour.

Why does this hour?

matter. Well, I have to get this XYZ thing done or have to do this call, because you have to do this thing forward to so that they have the thing ready for four o'clock. Oh yeah, okay, that's why.

And that applies to every aspect of life. Like, even if you're sitting in traffic and you simply reframe this as this is happening for you, not to you. Like that is everything.

Like that is literally that is the only thing I've ever considered getting tattooed is. I heard that I went to date with destiny when I was 20.

Oh, tony Robbins, Is that? Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so I went to love that event. I've actually been twice and date with destiny changed my life. That was an amazing event. It was a it's like seven days, I think it's like six or seven. It's a long time. It's intense. It's like 12 to 14 hours a day. It's cold as fuck in the room. It's super exhausting Emotionally, physically, mentally. It's like it's a lot. But I'm like man, this is, it was the most impactful thing I've ever done up until that point and I was 20 years old and that was the. His slogan is like life is happening for us, not to us. So everything in life is happening for us, not to us. Every bad thing is the best thing. Every death is a rebirth. And when you start to and I heard that I was like oh, that's so good. I was like that. That encapsulates every moment of life. It's like, oh, the thing you don't want to do is happening for you, not to you. Oh, you lost all this money. Oh, this person passed away. Oh, this person quit. Oh, the file got corrupted in the video, or all these little micro things like oh well, what's the what? Like saying what's happening for us, not to us, just in your head. Get to think well, what's the what's the silver lining to this thing? What's the silver lining? So we have this, for video is one of our video guys. He are one of our talent for in our programs he will. Often, when he first started, he would like mess up the recording of the file it would like delete and audio would get messed up. And he's like oh, dude, I spent two hours doing the video and it got lost and I'm like great, so the next one's going to be even better. Like the next takes going to be dope. Like that got deleted for a reason. God was looking out for you to delete that thing. Like now you can do better. You can do better. That's the difference. And when you start accepting those and seeing that, how you look at the world, I even look at it as, like you know, missing flights or every little detail, oh, the meal didn't come out Right. The restaurant got the food wrong. Whoops, like tapping for us or something here. Maybe longer conversation, maybe that food would have been like gotten a sick, who knows, I don't know. And I always try to play that game in in business and just in life in general, because it's a really it's the one quote I've found no holes in. I can't poke a hole in that quote. Every other quote like that. I hate the one as a little bit of a tangent. I hate the how you do everything or how you do anything is how you do everything or whatever. I fucking hate that one Cause also. You mean like every time I take a drink I'm going to have 50 beers, or does it mean every time I'm going to sleep in my sleep, in every day? Like I don't like that one, because to me that's like why are you living in these, in these extremes? Why does everything have to be like oh, I always, you know I get up at five, but what if you're tired? Like what if? What if getting sleep is what's needed, like I love. I live by a motto of do what's required. So doing what's required and that's also our company like mission and part of our values is like doing what's required, because, well, that often means getting eight hours of sleep. As boring as that sounds, it's like it's not just work harder, it's like help the customer oh well, I need to make better course videos. Oh, I'm tired, so get some fucking sleep. Like rest, recharge, oh, I feel burned out. Take a trip. Take a trip, take a few days off, it's all good, we'll be right here, it'll be fine, and I think that is a that's the one that I love, that I do it. Like you know, life's having for us, not to us, and then understanding to do what's required at every moment and every time and every place and every situation, versus the how you do anything's how you do everything, kind of mindset. Hopefully that's such a favorite quote, that's not my favorite quote.

As a person who's very disorganized in certain aspects of my life and very organized in others, I understand what you mean by that.

But I'm a mess. Do you think I'm not organized at all? I'm a, I don't organize anything.

But why I've been playing around with this idea of being delusional and being deliberately delusional, and I'd love applying that to that quote. Of life is happening for you, not to you.

And what does that mean? What is it, I'm curious? What do you mean by deliberately delusional?

So being deliberately delusional in the sense of it's crazy to think that at 24 you can be achieving X, y and Z, but being deliberately delusional in actually believing that, or in it's crazy to think that every little thing in life is happening for you, not to you, but deliberately believing that, even if it's not true, just believe the belief in it is what changes everything and what makes it actually happen to you, not against you. It's the reframe of simply understanding that there's some things that maybe they're not true, but if you believe they're true, your life will be better for it.

Yeah, I like that Cause it also kind of it kind of insulates you, it keeps you. It's almost like a kind of like a protect mechanism, like if you're actually delusional, you're like someone's, like you can't cheat that, you're like great, but I'm delusional, so whatever, like I'm crazy, whatever, it's fine, believe what you want, I'll believe this.

So, when we apply all this stuff to sales, which is the start of it all for you, how do you think that that background of sales cause it's something you hear over and over with entrepreneurs the sales background was one of the key things that helped propel you to success? Uh, do you think that's true for yourself, and like, what aspect of sales was so beneficial for you?

If so, yeah, so it for me it kind of it really instilled. Like you, you eat what you kill mentality, and that's pretty much how business is. Businesses basically just sales, and every business is different, but they only function unless something is sold. Something somewhere has to get sold to someone somehow, and understanding that is really key and I think my, my personal advice would be to most people in I've told you this is like if they're really stuck in, I want to do they don't want to do online making content is usually not the right path. The right path is understanding sales. Cause you're going to understand sales, then you can get into everything else and it's like a better. It's a little bit of a shortcut If you're not sure it's a. It's a. It's a shortening the path in a pretty direct way, because if you can understand how to get someone over the line to buy something that is beneficial for them and is good for them, you're doing them a service, a but you're also growing faster, like you can do things faster and you can also. It's a skill. Like our VP of sales is like a long time sales, that like veteran in real estate and high ticket sales, all that stuff. I mean you could just drop him in any country and give him 30 days that we make in you know 10, 15 grand a month in any currency. Like he's got it done, deal what, sell cars, it doesn't matter anything. And that skill, I think, is the one that's been. It's the longest skill, like in the world, like it's been happening for longer than marketing, longer than the internet, longer than content is sales, and I think it's a great starting point because you can start with nothing usually. Usually you can just get a job like selling, cut go selling insurance, selling, selling cars, selling whatever. You don't need any skills and you work on pure commission. That's what I think it teaches you and it teaches you how to use, you kill or yet that that's how life works essentially and I think it really understands you. You can understand risk reward without losing a lot, because I have a lot to lose now, like we have the team, the business, the company, stuff. Like we, it was a lot more to lose. But if you're just doing sales in the beginning, getting started, it really. I mean, you're usually selling someone else's product which costs you nothing and you only don't get paid. You don't lose money If you don't sell something, you just don't get paid. But if we don't make sales, I lose, we go into the red. It's not just flat line, so there's a little bit of a different thing at scale and that is, uh, I think that's a really, really impactful skill and I think is where everyone should consider starting.

It's getting comfortable with that rejection right, like being able to understand that and to get said no to your face time and time again. Like that is so important.

I think the best one to many salesman, like the best marketers, which is basically just sales from one to many. That's all it is. Sales is just marketing. It's just sales from one to many versus one to one. That's it, no difference. And the best people at one to many selling are phenomenal one to one sellers.

Hmm, closers thought about that.

Well, like they're phenomenal at that, they've mastered that skill and they're amazing at marketing and webinars and copywriting and email and this thing and that thing, it's like, oh, it's just taking what I would say in a sales pitch and recording a video. It's the same and are similar. So I think that is a really, really reason I translate where, vice versa, it for me, understanding content or marketing or whatever it doesn't directly translate to a one on one sales call or a sales in person. It doesn't. It doesn't translate the same way.

And I want to return back to something that we talked about, or that you quickly mentioned before and we actually talked about it before we hit record which is masterminds, and it's something that you're a huge fan of, that you invested heavy in and that's always piqued my interest of um then on the ledge of committing to certain masterminds and then never pulled the trigger. What is the benefit of um going into some of these masterminds and they usually cost a lot of money what is the benefit of doing those things?

So it really depends on what you're looking for. But I view, anytime you can be on people who have achieved a single thing, not the whole picture one thing that you want, it's worth it at any price. For example, if I wanted to learn, uh, let's say, how to build a YouTube channel or a bigger YouTube channel, like we already have a, how do we, how do we scale our YouTube channel? How do we scale our content team? If I was to mastermind that had two people in that they were doing content better than us. I don't care if it's a hundred grand or five grand or 10 grand, it doesn't matter. If I can learn a couple of things from them, I can shortcut and compress time so I can learn from them in the room, not through video in person. Shake hands, shake hands, have dinner, have a drink with that person and I can see and learn what we are not doing, what they are doing, and it bridges the gap. The second thing I find is super valuable is most people are pretty fucking normal. So when you get in the room with someone who's making like, I've met people who make like three, four, five, even up to 10 million a month they're just fucking normal people, like some of them, are actually awfully unimpressive. You're like what, you're like you what. And for me that personally makes you feel like if he can do it, I can do it. If he can, if he can do that, I can sure as shit do that. So that that's where I like them personally is that. And then another side benefit is like that's how I meet most of my friends now, so like I can't just hope that in Austin I just meet other entrepreneurs that are in the space, like me, that are making seven, eight figures, like they're not just, like they're not just walking down the street, you know, they're not at the bar, they're not watching the football game, like they're, they're in these different pockets and I meet all of them at these masterminds and it's like I'm busy. So it's like when I have free time usually hang out. I have some close friends here in person family and my girlfriend. I don't just like go out to meet new people all the time, only at masterminds. That's it. I love it, I'm a fan of anything info dude. If you can buy information, I'm in. I'm in like and I'm I'm the opposite. We're like people say, oh, the course didn't, wasn't worth it. I'm like did you learn one thing One? I don't care what you paid a thousand, 50, 50,000, five bucks, it doesn't matter. Did you get one thing from it? Great. And if you do that a hundred times, you learned a hundred things Great.

I love what you said about like making the friends and masterminds, cause by definition I say this all the time on the podcast uncommon people are uncommon to find and when you are that person who's obsessed in chasing these things that no one else around you is chasing, it is fucking hard to find the people around you that you can relate to and are on that same level mentally. And being very deliberate with how you meet those people changes everything. Like to your point about the masterminds.

It's not a happenstance, it's a strategy, like it's a strategy for me going to these things to meet these certain people that I already know by just watching who they are that we'll get on Well, we'll be friends. It's pretty simple and that is the. That's a strategy. Now, it's not a manipulation strategy, just like oh well, I'm not going to just like cold DM them. I'd rather just like how, how is what's the best chance of us become? It's provided value to one another is going to be pretty much in person, at the bar, over a conversation that goes on for two hours. That is really really beneficial. That may not even be that tactical. That's the things that matter, like how I, even how we get connected with through Ireland and I met him through buying one of his products and then buying a second one, so I'm a customer of his. Yeah, he didn't just hook me up. I spent tens of thousands of dollars with him so I did. So that's like, that's. It's a shortcut, it's faster and it just changes the frame of like, oh, it's not like. Oh, it's not like. Um, you know, we were friends and then I gave my friend money. It's like no, no, no, like I. You have something that I would like to purchase. I would like help with this. Here you go, help me out, and in turn, we just become friends, naturally, and that's how masterminds work. So I, yeah, I'm a huge fan of them. I would go to more if I could. Honestly, the only reason why I don't go to more because the time. Can it Like? If they're two or three times a year, I'm like that's a lot of travel. If I'm in like I'm in three right now, uh, and probably looking to go to a fourth. If I'm in six or seven, I'm like every weekend I'd be at a damn mastermind. That's, that's a bit much so. Uh, I love it. That's a. That's a bit much so. Uh, at least for now.

Uh, so that that's the reason why it's funny because it's the same thing as the podcast. Like nowadays, almost all of my new friends have come from the podcast. Like it is.

Oh, like the interview, people like me like yeah, yeah exactly.

Oh, interesting, it builds a certain rapport being here for an hour, two hours, whatever it may be, uh, and it translates. It's. It's very interesting. Um, I didn't initially think that going in, but it's been one of the unforeseen benefits you know.

Also, too, I want to touch on that. People listening Like there's pro. I mean, everyone in their brother has been exposed to a mastermind. A course some offer, some info, shit of somewhere in my take is always just buy it, like, don't research, just buy the damn thing, don't overthink it, learn from it, because I so. I don't like books because they go out of date. Personally, I don't like books. I don't read books. I find it I have like people read the book and just give me the like the cliff notes, essentially like all right, what did you get out of it? Is it good? Tell me the five things you learned? Great. But I will buy someone's course and spend 20 hours watching it because that's a way more detailed. Like a book is like a snapshot, a podcast, a snap shot. A course, a speech, a someone's training program, someone's like live event recordings, whatever it is. That's a way deeper dive into that topic. Like, and that's also where, too, like we put like if we did a book, it'd be like I'm not going to update the book every three months, like that's a pain in the ass.

Oh yeah.

But we update our programs like monthly, so they're getting up to date information on whatever the topic is for us it's blogging, but like up to currently, they get up to date information. That's insane. So why wouldn't Alex I know we do that why wouldn't I get other people stuff who are doing things exceptionally well and they're going to put more effort into their programs that make them tons of money than a book?

I was talking to a pretty big time real estate investor and he was saying he had, when he first got started, I think he had like $200,000 saved up to invest into real estate and he spent like two years just kind of being in this place of mental masturbation, like running the numbers on a bunch of deals but never actually pulling the trigger on anything. So what he did was he dropped $100,000 on a mentorship from this huge real estate investor. So now he cut his money in half. But what that did for him was it burned the boats one. There was no going back. Now I put half my net worth into doing this mentorship, so I better as hell invest in real estate. And then to your point, like if you just, I mean there's not, you know there's not. You got to learn from people who've been where you want to go, and sinking that investment like a book isn't a big enough commitment for most people to extract all the knowledge out of the book that there is in it, even if it's perfectly up to date. Right, Like if the book was 10 times the price, you probably get 10 times more value out of the book just because of that price, Cause you feel like it's higher stakes.

It's a interesting concept, so I think my favorite concept in the world which is like skin in the game. Hmm, because if you have more skin in the game, you're more willing to like hold yourself accountable. Like people will, will give a bad, and it's mostly just like trolls. It's not like real people, it's we'll like, have a. We'll like think down upon people that sell things for five, 10, 15, $20,000. Little do they know. That's the trick. So let's look at university. The best course of all time is a four year university. The business model is perfect. So they basically have their guarantee. If we're an internet guy, oh, here's the fastest way to make X, y, z dollars, or this trick or investing thing or whatever. But the difference is, when it comes to universities, they're like oh, we have like a 99% job placement rate. That's the same guarantee. Like, okay, great, they're selling security. They get you in. You can choose from a buffet of options. Great We'll, we'll guide you here. Great, we take one year, take your time. You have fun, community camaraderie, fraternities, all that kind of fun stuff, the football, the sport. They get entertainment in the, in the programs, a little bit of class time off, it's like you know whatever. And ultimately, all of these things you're designed to do is get you to come back the next year and then again, and then again, and then again, and then you gave them $150,000 over the course of four years or five or even 10 years. Tons of money for them to say you were now certified Genius. Genius, it's fucking genius. Education businesses course, businesses do the same thing, but highly specialized Meaning. They're just the marketing is just there to get you in the door, the products there to help you learn the thing. But the great thing is you could, instead of. Schools are generalized, so like, yeah, there's schools that are better, better, better at uh, than other schools for certain things. Like there's certain schools that are better for medical, physical therapy, law, whatever the hell the thing is, it doesn't matter, but those are still. They're just general schools, teaching general subjects about general topics that are just, yeah, kind of whatever. But when you get an expert who's made millions of dollars or gotten super fit or solve this XYZ problem in a relationship or dating or this, that the other. You mean I can buy that for a thousand or even 10. So I can solve this massive problem in my life for 10 grand. I'm like, sign me up, sign me up. Yet we're giving 150 grand to basically solve nothing Like that. That's like the same model, but it's a lot more efficient. Yet people talk very, very down. A lot of people not everybody don't really respect the education industry. The same like the online education industry.

Yeah, I wonder how long it will take until this, like decentralized approach to learning, become something that's accepted when jobs go away.

So I have a embedding like there's like I'm going to. I call it like the synthesizer economy. So the term actually came from some of the names, like Andrew Kirby's, like a YouTube guy, but the concept is not the word is his, but the concept is standard. Is that understanding that? You know? Really the main thing is that jobs are changing. Now, like every time we go to hire a superstar for our company, they're usually doing like a side hustle thing. They have an Airbnb, they've got this other thing. They're not just like doing this one job forever. They live a little bit of a different life and the main point I'm trying to make here is like people will always the future of kind of where things are going is people helping and teaching other people with their problems. So, for example, everyone could possibly have been a roller. There's not many jobs. Everyone is like a coach helping someone else to something else could be a dating coach helps someone like me with dating and then I help them with their business. Like synthesized, like a little own economy versus you know, one person selling to everybody. Like a college colleges have a monopoly. They sell to the masses. They go get jobs versus selling back.

I hope it happens that way, because sometimes I could take a grim look at things with that or like it will be a bunch of people just like twiddling their thumbs. But I hope it's that. I think that's a really interesting and cool concept, yeah.

And it could be simple things too. It could be dead simple. It could be like help with like a spreadsheet, like how to get better at spreadsheets, like something really primitive or like you know how to trim your beard a certain way, like it could be really simple stuff. It doesn't have to be this like crazy make, like doesn't have to be related to money at all, but that's where I see things going in a bigger way.

And do you think it's going to be like on a freelancing basis? That's what I was kind of thinking.

Yeah, it could be, and I think a lot of people, like they're typically, they're making like under a hundred grand, like that size of the business is like under a hundred. You're typically a freelancer anyways, so it's like a bunch of like you know, smaller freelancers. That's kind of why I could view them. You know they probably don't view themselves as freelancers but they are.

That's interesting and when one thing we haven't talked about today, that I've written in front of me, is the only thing that we haven't talked about yet, which is, in researching this episode, I've learned that you've been a nomad for a little bit. You traveled around quite a bit and it's something that you know. I just graduated college and I'm not tied down to any place right now and that, like the dual nomad path, is something that I'm quite interested in and considering. What do you think that did for you and how was that experience of taking some time to be a bit more nomadic?

Yeah. So I was like 22 and I was making enough money online to support myself. I was making probably like between 60 and a hundred grand give or take a year, not a month a year, and that was way more than enough to be 22 years old living in Bali. I was like that's more than enough, that's plenty at the time and that was like six, seven years ago now and that was an amazing experience, like traveling I if you even are inkling of hitting, hitting the road, do it because there it has an expiration date, not if there's nothing to do with your age. You just get that bug fades at some point, like you get, oh, I want to travel, do it, because in six months or a year or two it'd be like, nah, I kind of like my life, I've got a girlfriend and this thing, that thing, I don't want to leave. If you feel it, do it, because what I learned is that I really learned that everyone's the same. So cultures, skin tone, language, this is all different, but really these places are not that different. Like I lived in Bali, in Thailand, I lived in Bali for about two years on and off and then Thailand for two years. I kind of was going back and forth between the places, a couple of their stints here and there, but primarily those two places, and in those two places I lived almost the identical life, in both that I live here, like I'd have the same morning routines, I do the same shit to meet similar people. That I, all my friends, were Western, from like Australia or Europe or America or wherever, and I was like I live a minus the fun like, meaning like the, the novelty of the beaches and the, the different foods and the different kinds of beers and all the fun shit outside of that. It was pretty much the same and all the people pretty much behaved, acted, one of the same things, like oh, this is interesting. Like you think everyone and everyone's so different. It's like we're all humans.

That's so funny. That was by same exact takeaway from traveling. And there was a quote I heard before I had spent some time to travel that I thought was cool, but then when I traveled, it like hit me. I was like, oh, that is as a truth. I lived in Spain for a while, spent some time in Italy, did kind of like a a Europe thing when I was in college for a year, and then that taught me there's a quote from Rumi which is you aren't a drop in the ocean, you're the ocean in a drop. And what I took away from that quote is that everything's the same, everybody is the same. And it's funny that you brought it back to that, because that was my same exact takeaway.

Yeah. So I mean to tie back that knot too is like to loop that in. Is you know, traveling, I think, is a really powerful thing because the people you meet outside of, like the locals, just like people you run into, is your group and only child and I didn't have like brothers or sisters or like lifelong best friends. And the cool thing with traveling to a lot of places you go there and everyone else is in the same boat, meaning everyone else who went to Bali also came there by themselves.

That's a great perspective.

So you like, everyone there isn't, like I remember. There's so many times I can remember in Bali of just like being at a co-working space, being at a random cafe, being out at a bar and or any kind of hangout spot in Bali for that matter, just like, or at the beach or whatever. And I would just like randomly talk to people and I say I know I'm at lunch or dinner with them. I'm like, how did we? Like that never happens back home, like in America, like maybe it doesn't weird plays I don't know about, but like that doesn't happen. It's always like I've got my friend group, I've got my family, I've got my little crew, but there was like, oh, this is so great. Everyone's like, yeah, cause I'm here from Sweden, I'm here from Germany, I'm here from Canada and America, I don't know. Anyway, well, let's all not be alone and let's all connect and get to know each other and just see where whatever this is goes. And that happened every day. So it really expands your social like muscle too, which I think is really powerful. Like it makes you, if you're introverted, it makes you extroverted. If you're extroverted, it makes you introverted at times, cause it's like, oh like, if you're there by yourself at night, well, you're going to be by yourself likely, so get used to it.

I love that perspective. I found that same experience to be true as well. It's a really good place to make friends when you're in an environment like that, where everyone else is also on their own.

Yeah, it's my favorite. I was like. You know, I love the Nomad circuit. I did it for about four plus years, four years which is kind of wild for that yeah. Yeah, I was living out of a suitcase. I had one suitcase for literally for like four years. And it was fun, it was a blast man. I had a really, really good time, but then towards the end it was like it's not, it's like it's. I wasn't able to build as quickly Like the second. I had a routine and had a home and had a bed that I owned, that was the same bed every single night and similar stuff, and I was making my own food and these little details like results exploded. So it's not necessarily like a grow your business time. Some people do it, but it just I, wasn't for me and it was challenging, to say the least, and mostly because there's too much fun happening. It's like there's too much like you know you, you meet a, you start hanging out with the girl you met, traveling at super fun, and then you're like I'm just going to take a few nights to go on a weekend trip, this thing, that next thing you know you like, spent two weeks kind of just fucking around, partying, having fun, great experience. But it's not really growing the business or your, it's just a fun experience. So there is a time where it just comes to an end, and I found I was just after a while of living in Asia. I was just craving simple, like the simple comfort to be kind of happier in the States, which I've grown now to really appreciate of like Amazon, like a little detail like, or like you could just drink the tap water, like a little detail of like you know, these little things like that that you kind of just forget when you're here your whole life, that when you leave for a while and come back, oh, that's kind of good, kind of like that makes life a little easier.

Absolutely, and that perspective of like it's the digital nomad thing probably isn't the best place to grow a business. That's the dichotomy I'm fighting right now, like my friend left for Bali like three weeks ago and I was going to go with him but the podcast had doubled like that month prior and I was like shit. I'm just like everything's just compounding right now. It's such a fast rate. I was like I got to keep the momentum. I can't, I can't finish now and I think there's a time and a place and hopefully I don't miss that window like you're saying.

But I found is really interesting is that I I've now embraced the word vacation. That's a good point. I thought that word for like my entire adult life. Why is that? It's like you know how you see the world. You can just go on like a few vacations for a couple of weeks at a time and you get. You can just get a lot of the same. I'm like I get why people have been doing this for fucking forever. It makes sense now, right, it's like, oh yeah, you just go and experience the place and when you're done, you're done, you go home. Has an expiration date built in. Why didn't you? You could make them three weeks. You take three, three big trips. You spend nine weeks on the road. You can go to baller for three weeks. Get a full experience. Be ready to come back.

That's perfect. Yeah, that's a. That's a great reminder, colin. Is there anything we haven't talked about today that you think is fundamental to you, your work, or just something you're passionate about that you think we should talk about today that we haven't?

No man, right, I just I really appreciate you taking the time here. You know I want to start sharing my story more. I want to actually get you know, get really what I want to say out there more, kind of just begin to tell my story even more and even deeper. And yeah, so it was really awesome to you know, have the chat today and yeah, no, nothing specific unless you got anything else you want to ask Sweet dude.

Well, colin, you're always welcome back on the show if you want to continue to tell the story further, and I appreciate you coming on today. And this is a blast Awesome, appreciate it, ryan. Thanks.