Decoding Health with The Autoimmune Doctor Taylor Krick

Hello, hello, welcome back to the Alchemist Library podcast. Today on the show we have Dr Taylor Crick. Dr Taylor is the host of the autoimmune doc podcast and helps teach on how to manage autoimmunity Through science, labs, lifestyle supplements etc. I am pumped to get into this up one episode today, so I'm going to leave it at that. Catch you guys inside peace. Are you doing this work to facilitate growth or to become famous. Which is more important. Dr Taylor, welcome the pod. Thank you, ryan, how you doing.

I'm doing great. How about yourself?

I am doing good, I'm pumped to get into all things autoimmunity today. I think it's one thing that the mainstream really struggled mainstream doctors really struggle to treat. Now we were really good at like the acute injuries and the acute issues. But when it comes to these chronic, long-term issues, this seems where modern medicine really struggles and Just love the work that you've been putting out in that front.

Thanks, I appreciate it. I I completely agree. There's a you know just a wave of of autoimmunity, just kind of as a you know a diagnosis wave, but also I would describe it as more of just like a mechanism, more than a Specific disease. You know there's over a hundred known autoimmune names now diseases, diagnoses. But it's more of a mechanism and so that's kind of what I try to teach is how that, how those complex mechanisms all just intertwine.

So thanks, so what do you mean by that? When you say mechanism, is that just?

well, just system is overactive, exactly, and attacking Self-tissue. So the immune system is not supposed to attack self tissue, it's supposed to attack foreign tissue and so when that attack is misdirected, that's basically the definition of of what autoimmune autoimmunity is. And so there's also you know, I have a, all these things. I kind of sometimes you forget what I have out there and I've learned all this from mentors, so I always try to give credit to whoever I've learned this from. But autoimmunity happens in three stages. The first is called silent autoimmunity and there's antibodies present. So that's a sign that your body is attacking or has flagged some, some part of your body. Your immune system, rather, has flagged some part of your body, but it's silent, there's no symptoms, there's no problems, there's no really issues yet. But those are also called predictive antibodies to. And then stage two is you get symptoms, but maybe you don't have, let's say, like on an MRI you don't have any lesions on your MRI, so you don't have MS. Or on an x-ray let's say you're, you know, 25 years old and you don't have joint erosion, but you so you might not classify as rheumatoid arthritis or things like that, so there's no damage visible yet. And then the third is when there's visible, irreversible tissue damage. So I think that that process and understanding that process and just knowing that I mean really like most health conditions have an autoimmune Component to them. A lot of people might never be diagnosed with with MS or Hashimoto's or rheumatoid arthritis or whatever the case is, but if you learn how to just control that mechanism of autoimmunity, it's the root of most, most ailments.

I think this is a great segue to lab work, because what it's the perfect way to Kind of catch these things in its track. I mean, we're seeing this massive uptick in autoimmunity across the board and lab work seems to be one of those things that if you start doing it consistently early on, you kind of stop these things in its tracks.

Absolutely, and I think that you know just a lot of even my work, just in general, is not constrictly based on budget, but it's like what are you willing to dive into? Because you can the limit does not exist on how deep and how often you want to go on labs but also what's the best bang for the buck. So looking at just general blood work and having somebody you know whether it's a MD or DC or I don't know even some health coaches that just know how to interpret this lab. They're not diagnosing and they're not offering treatment, but they're just helping you Interpret your labs and in functional ranges, a lot of times, just the basics go a long way. In fact, I got this sheet here. I know that if you're on audio you won't be able to see it, but this just has Different labs that we check off for people and next to it it has the cost of each one from our internal standpoint. Just because, as I'm checking something off, I keep that in mind of just what's the total cost and what's the bang for the buck of what we're really looking for and is it going to Influence our action steps. You know a lot of people they'll run like big, fancy lab panels and the action steps are still guided to save as if you ran. You know more of a simple panel, but also so you can go again limitless with that, ryan. And and then also, like even I could see in my background, this book is called food associated auto immunities. It's a textbook and it's just like food sensitivities are a major Driver of auto immunity. It's not my favorite text, it's not the one that I always recommend for people, but food and food elimination is an important part of healing or Reversing or whatever the word is, preventing the progression of auto immunity or putting it into remission or kind of slowing down that process. So, anyway, you could do food testing, you could do gut testing. Now you said you've had some, some issues that you've worked on and you said, through some labs and protocols and things, what testing have you had any experience with?

Oh, so I love this world of testing but I would say on that topic of food sensitivity, I did Early on in the journey I did a MRT 170 food sensitivity test and I it was really, really helpful at the time because doing a strict elimination diet I was in college at the time it was it was a little difficult to have that more targeted approach of Knowing I mean, I know it's not perfect science, but having just a general direction of what some of the things are that could be causing Major inflammation for you. Yeah, it was a really good guiding light, just like early on to Start to heal the gut and to allow the body to not create this massive Inflammation spike through the things I eat.

Yeah, and I think that you said it too, that it's not. It's not a perfect science, there's different ways to test, but it can give you some short-term answers. As far as like hey, and he cut this out for the next three months or so, let me turn this off. But I always draw, make a drawing for people too, and I say if the focus on healing, as the healing goes up, the restrictions can come down and food sensitivity naturally change and they decrease with gut permeability and some of the other work they even you said that you've done and so I think it's just like you said, a short-term focus, but can identify some of those triggers of inflammation. I always say to you know, in the conventional doctor's office they say, hey, it's just inflammation, and that's kind of where they stop. And in my office we say hey, it's inflammation, and that's kind of where we start. So when we're looking for the drivers of of inflammation and another thing to run just with this big picture auto immune thing, I took this from one of my mentors, dr Sam Yannick. But he says If you're scratching your hand and you keep scratching, it's gonna get Irritated and bleed and eventually there's gonna be tissue damage. So what you got to do is stop scratching. So the fingers are foods and gut health, toxins, stress, hormones and Hidden infections, and so not in that, not in any particular order, but that kind of is really the order that I tend to look at these things in, and so I think that's a good thing to do, and so I think that just looking for the drivers of this inflammatory process, and foods being a major one- Absolutely so.

I love what you said. Restrictions go down once you start to heal. Like that is such an important note. I remember like being in the thick of being incredibly restrictive and being like I Don't want to do this for my whole life. But now in hindsight I realized exactly what you just said, that like I don't really need to be restrictive with my diet anymore because I've done that healing in the past. I think it's just such an important note for people. We're like in the thick of it.

Yeah, and it's a balance too, because, let's say, you spend six months like off the wagon, a little bit more, and then it's like okay, well, problems can reappear, and there's like okay, I got a refocus on the healing aspect and the restriction aspect and so I think that even for me as I, you know, get older Year by year it's more of that balance of of like okay, well, if you, I don't know if you get off track, then that's okay, but get back on track. And I think that a lot of times, so many people come into me and they're so hyper focused on like the right now, because they're in pain or they're suffering, or they're struggling and I think the big picture, long term, you're always playing with that balance recovery and from anything you know, from exercise, from drinking, from food, from Vacation, from stress you have to balance it out with some, you know, recovery time.

So you said food got hidden infections, toxins. Am I missing one there? Stress, I think I said yeah, stress.

So food and gut I put, I combine those into one. And hidden infections I would say is a little bit different, which could be gut of course, but just as far as even lab work. But gut and foods toxins, stress I usually, even as I'm listing them, I list those two interchangeably, but I always say hormones and Hidden infections. The hormones one, especially in women, autoimmune is more prevalent in women and it really tends to hit around puberty, pregnancy and perimenopause. So all three just times of more hormonal fluctuations and hormonal changes.

So why is that? It's because of that hormone fluctuations.

That yeah, yeah so some protective roles and some inflammatory roles and things like that. Like even in menopause is inflammation, or as estrogen declines there's a big inflammatory cytokine trigger and so that can just drive a lot of Inflammate like inflammatory loops. That kind of get activated and keep going. Same thing with pregnancy. Pregnancy is like the body is preparing the baby for the outside world and then as soon as the baby is out it's like we could take a break and there's different charts that I'll even show people as far as. Like your immune system goes through different Polarizations in each trimester. So I do a lot of visual Stuff with people. You know whether it's virtual or in person. If it's virtual or either way, I just put my computer around. But I've got a bunch of graphics from science, literature and medical studies and stuff and they just really quickly can illustrate like hey, these cytokines change in each trimester. So some people might say my allergies were way worse in the second trimester and we can show that in a picture. But it's a lot of these T cell polarization which is, I think, important in the world of autoimmunity, because T cells are kind of what do? What do the damage in the autoimmune world? But the Immune system goes through certain fluctuations and then a lot, just a lot of people. They might say like After my first kid I was tired. After my second kid I was really tired. After my third kid I felt like I got hit by a bus and I couldn't get up bed or I couldn't pick my baby up because I had rheumatoid arthritis or things like that. So it will progress through different pregnancies sometimes, but that's just one of the clues, even on paperwork, of Maybe you have an autoimmune process occurring.

Yeah, and you mentioned T cells there being a big part of this response, and I love that.

That's one of the reasons why.

I've been. Let's dive into it, but in particular with peptides. Yeah, I don't know much about that.

I've had a few questions about that recently and I don't you know BPC 157, of course, being like the most famous peptide, but I don't, I don't know that much about different T cell stimulating ones. I just started listening to this dude. I may be listening to like maybe one or two podcasts, but he's kind of in the mold and Lyme world and he's just huge into peptides. I don't even remember his name, but it was super intriguing because it was all about T cells. So even you might be able to educate me on some, some peptide stuff.

Yeah, I don't know a ton, I know I. I have not done it yet I, I, I've been interested in thymocin alpha one and thymocin, or, uh, thymocin beta one or beta four.

Yeah, there's another thymothymis one.

Those are the ones that.

I've heard about, and I would only recognize them when you set them, but I don't even know, understand like the nomenclature and the naming. So I'm, I just not very well versed on peptides. There's a couple of guys I follow that are just huge into it, but I think that the reviews that I've heard from people that have done it or have been mixed, I would say, and I've seen one person who he blamed his autoimmunity on BPC 157. That's kind of what he thought was the trigger. I have no way of confirming that, but that's just what he he kind of suspected had caused him to flare and whatever capacity. But that's the only bad thing I've ever heard. And then I've also just heard, maybe like that, when people stop, their results have kind of stopped, and I don't remember if that's even with immune things or if that's with um, um, like SARMS or different testosterone, uh, different modulating things, um, but I have have heard that as well. So I don't know, I just haven't dabbled in that. Another thing for me, though, too, is I don't want to say that I'm like super cheap, because I mean I've I definitely dropped some coin into my wellness, but I'm bang for the buck. So I'm more like food, diet, exercise, light air quality. I'm huge in the air quality so I'd rather drop like a couple of grand on air purification stuff for my house than on on different things like that. Now, I'm not opposed to it in hyperbaric and I think that all those things have value, but also some of those things even for me. You know, my old practice was in Salt Lake and I did cryo and I there was just access to that stuff. So now I'm in Peoria, illinois, or Washington, illinois, and it's more like small town. I mean it's not there's 300,000 people but it's not like hyperbaric. There's not that much hyperbaric. There's not that much. I don't know if there's any cryo. There's like salt tanks and stuff like that, but there's just not a lot of these modalities. Even to get like a Myers cocktail or IV vitamins I would be. There's like maybe a few clinics that would offer it, but it's not a. They're not readily accessible. So I don't even know around here. I mean, I know you can order peptides online, but I don't even know if there's anybody practitioner wise to even guide me around here.

So it's difficult. It's definitely that was my hesitation for it, because I wanted to do it with a practitioner who, like, was very well versed and understanding and I had a few conversations with people, but, like, they're just kind of like, yeah, take these two, and I didn't really have too much guidance with it. So, um, and I also think, like to your point right, like we step over dollars for pennies a lot in this world of hell, like it's. I was talking about this the other day with somebody. It's like there's two people arguing about whether diet coke is the worst thing in the world, but yet when you look at like the things that are killing people, it's going to be instant resistance, like being one of the main things. And it's like you are overweight, inflamed and you're worrying too much about diet coke, like, yeah, getting cheap. Yeah, like there's so much and the basics and that's what I feel about air quality as well.

That's going back to that. But, like I completely agree, I think that as I've gotten older in this profession, you know, I think I I gotta even look up at my diploma. Sometimes I'm almost 12 years out of school. So I mean, not, not, I'm a little super old, but I've definitely feel a lot older than I did then, but each year, you know, I feel like even having kids too, like just moderation to some degree. Now there's a line somewhere and you don't really want to flirt with that line. But to be all or nothing in a lot of these areas is just not that sustainable. But I feel like the the the basics of gut health, uh, stress toxins, I mean the five scratchers, basically. That's kind of why, too, you know, I spoke I've spoken before a different uh seminars about my practice and I said that's why I picked the niche of auto immunity, because it's kind of like the anti-niche. It's like keep all these plates spinning and look into what somebody's priorities might be and, based on questionnaires and things like that, that's what's going to lead me towards gut testing or foods testing or toxin testing or hormone testing. So a lot of times you can fish out some of these clues through a lot of people's history and questionnaires and then just say, hey, this is what I think is the best thing for you to test and a lot of what I do too, like there's this huge world of like options that are all great. They all have got, you know, fancy price tags and fancy landing pages and, you know, very, very, very tempting, and when you read it it's like I need that I need that, I need that, I need it all. So one of the things that I do is just guide people and say, hey, this is why I would would recommend this over this. And I tell people, you know, my opinion is that golden like, do whatever you want. A lot of people I see are working with multiple practitioners. They've seen, you know, or they've been to 15 or 20 or things like that. That's not uncommon in my practice, but anyway, I just help guide people, more so than give any diagnosis or treatment, cause there's just so many options out there.

There's so many options out there, and I mean it's the beauty of the internet, though. Right Like, do you work like telemedicine across states? Yeah, yeah.

It's not telemedicine cause it's more just consulting, but absolutely I work virtually out of international all across the country mostly, but also international clients and stuff.

I mean. So it's like the beauty of the internet, though right Like in not too long ago you were, you were almost forced to go to that doctor in your town.

Yeah.

And a lot of times those guys aren't the the best ones for you. And, like, the internet opens up this world where you can consult with people all over.

Exactly, and I had somebody tell me that from Dubai and she was like that was the beauty of COVID, is that now I can meet with somebody like you, talking to me and say, hey, now, now I'm able to find you and connect with you. It's like, yeah, that's super cool. So I always tell people too, I tell my international clients. I'm like, hey, I just think it's cool that we're able to connect, Like I'm still humbled by it and like it's just like this is cool that you found me and we're working together. But I have that happen, you know, pretty often, so it's cool.

So do you do like if someone gets labs done and they're like how do? I read this Like do you do that with people?

Yeah, a lot of people that come to me have, like you know, a folder of of labs that they've done and, and you know, some come to me with with nothing. They've done nothing and they're kind of started from scratch. But a lot of people come to me with like a box full of supplements and the folder full of labs and they've worked with a couple of practitioners and maybe they've hit some roadblocks or maybe they I don't know just want to change a pace or sometimes, sometimes a second opinion. You know they're working with their. Their chiropractors ordered them three labs and they've just kind of hit the end of their road and said what should we do next? Um, but yeah, that's pretty common.

So let's dive into the food stuff. So, like for someone who suspects that they have some heavy food sensitivities, what do you think that person should do?

Um, first get a practitioner, I would say, because I think that they could just save them a lot of time, because a lot of times, even if people are reacting to foods, that doesn't mean the food sensitivity test is even their best option or their best bet. I think that if there's one test to do, it's stool testing and just seeing, like the, the health of the gut, like we said about it, just focus on the healing.

But I think that's a great one.

Yeah, I do a GI map. Uh, there's also gut zoomers. Um, I also do an organic acid which is a urine test, but it looks into some gut, gut metabolites. That's why one of my favorite, probably my favorite lab.

Organic acids.

Yeah, yeah, uh, there's 76. Organic acid is the one from mosaic or great planes it used to be great planes. Um, there's 76 different markers on there. Looks at yeast and mold, overgrowth in the gut, some bacterial imbalances in the gut with our urine metabolites. So it's not a direct stool test, um, but shows these metabolites that can really really really jack up neurotransmitters and brain health, um, so it looks at some just really intriguing things in the gut. So my favorite two tests of stool tests in the O test together um, it's a little more sensitive for yeast than most stool tests, so it looks for a yeast metabolites in kind of a different way, yeast and mold. And then it also looks at mitochondrial markers and I always tell people too it's like if you've had blood labs in there it's like everything looks good. Uh, then this is kind of the next layer, deeper and the more, some more cellular mechanics. So it's an oxalids. It looks at mitochondrial markers, looks at neurotransmitter imbalances. It looks at detox ability, b vitamin markers. So just some really cool things. So I think combining that with a stool test is in my favorite two like baseline tests that a lot of people come to me with, with both of those two labs already done. I'd say it's one of the more common tests that people come to me with too, um, but yeah, so I think that. Going back to the foods, I think that there's. So, first off, it depends on what the food sensitivities are. So my answer is probably pretty complex, just because I would be asking them a lot about the foods that they react to. So a lot of times I'll draw like if we're on zoom, I'll draw on a whiteboard and say, uh, tell me how you'd feel with each of these foods. Bread and pasta, uh, fried foods, ice cream, um in, uh, tomato, spicy food, salsa, I might list out just a few foods and I eat. With each one I'm just kind of looking for clues. Or a big raw south. I say out, those are like the six maybe, and so with each one I'm looking for clues. If they're like, oh, big raw south, I'm immediately bloated. Then I'm probably not looking on food sensitivity tests. I'm probably looking more into FODMAPs or just sending that some resources on FODMAPs and saying, hey, my suspicion is that we're going to find overgrowth on your labs, but let's see what we find. So I always say too in the gut, sometimes we need to pull weeds in the gut. Sometimes you need to plant seeds in the gut with probiotics and more often than not people are planting seeds when they should be pulling weeds. I would say. When you look at their lab work, the fried foods might be leading me more towards like gallbladder and and maybe some just parts of the digestive process. If they have an inability to digest fats, they get floating stools that have any skin issues, hormonal issues, um, the gluten one makes me think of just gluten which is super common. But a lot of people, too, say like, after a while, with the healing part, they say like I can have a little bit of gluten now and I feel fine, but if I have it a few meals a day, like, oh my gosh, I'll never do that again, or at some point there's a tolerance level. But their tolerance for it has improved. Um, the ice cream is a common one, so it's. Then it's like is it dairy? Is it dairy plus sugar? A lot of people aren't reactive feet like, from a symptom standpoint, to like a little cheese on their salad, but if they eat a tub of ice cream they're going to like crap their pants. Um, so just asking them through each one of those symptoms I've had, uh, you know, I've had that, that story before. It was one of my favorite stories that somebody said you know I won't make your podcast explicit, but they said can't have ice cream, and I was like, oh, yeah, why not? She's like crap myself. Uh, but she said it in a different way, you know. Uh, it was like, okay, well, that's a good, a good side, and I've heard that from many people. But just asking them through their different food sensitivities, um, some of the ones that are a little harder to find are uh oxalates. So oxalates we could find on labs that can be on an O test, um, which come from really, really, really healthy foods, and so that's an interesting thing that we could talk about. Or histamine is just like I would say, in the last five, four years, you know, like COVID era, basically, uh, histamine is just massively, massively rising to the surface of maybe just recognition, but also, I think, of prevalence because of different COVID related issues, um. So yeah, even a lot of like long COVID is like you know, in the long COVID forums and things, you'll find a lot of histamine and low histamine diets and like newfound histamine reactions, um. So I think that that's an important thing to look at, but a lot of those, again, you're not going to find on a food sensitivity test. You might on an MRT I don't do MRT testing, but I think that you might just because it's looking for that immune response, um. But I think that asking people through and just talking through is my, my most important step.

What was the food sensitivity test you use?

I use Cyrex, yeah Is there any reason for that?

I feel like I'm hearing more and more people.

Well, the founder of Cyrex, dr Viginani, the clinical director of Cyrex, he he found he started food sensitivity testing like in the 80s. He was the first one ever to. He's the one that authored this textbook and his son wrote, wrote this book. His son's more. His son's an MD, so his son's more of a practitioner. You can see my light, uh, but it says when food bites back, and that's more of the lay person's version and this is more of the practice. It's a textbook. So it's it's expensive, it's thick and it's just like all the science, but it's super cool. But that's just kind of why. Um, yeah, you know, I always say too is like Ford says they're better than Chevy says they're better than Toyota. They're all pretty good, they're all about the same. You got to test drive and fill which one's right for you, but they're all pretty good. As far as lab testing, I do think that with food sensitivity, I think some are better than others. Some of Cyrex's claims also is they use raw and cooked food antigens. So when the food is cooked, the the uh molecular structure of it changes, and so they use raw and cooked, cause some foods aren't really eaten raw. Um, so I think that that's an interesting thing. Um, but yeah, that's, I've always just stuck with Cyrex. I've done others. I've done some finger prick ones and stuff. I wasn't really happy with the, just the the results. I just felt like a lot of them came back clean, Um, which I not to say that these kids and people didn't have, but I, you want to do labs that people get value from. So a clean test provides no action steps and no answer. So if I started doing a couple of tests that are clean, then I'm probably not going to keep running that test for very long, because not to say we're looking for problems, but I mean, that's what people come to me for is to look for their problems of what could be driving their inflammation. So anyway, that's my, my preferred lab test.

So oxalates is one that freaks people out because they have this idea that, like spinach and almonds and all these things are like super foods.

Right.

And a lot of times there. They aren't that for people?

Yeah, I think that that concept is becoming more prevalent in different categories too, like with lektins and Dr Gundry yeah, just, he really pushed that to the forefront, but once he started saying that, like the plants have defense mechanisms and they don't want to be eaten and things like that, it's like, oh yeah, that kind of makes sense and I feel like also, you know, carnivore has just been very, very popular, but I feel like a lot of people they got issues with histamines, they got issues with FODMAPs, they got issues with lektins, they got issues with oxalids, and then all those are just from the plant kingdom. So I think that that's where the value has been for a lot of people in carnivore. Now I'm just still kind of like a moderate of like not all plants, not all animals, but a little bit of both. But I do think that either one go in either direction for a period of time can just shift the microbiome too. I think that's part of the focus of whatever your dietary strategy is is like you don't want to be on that forever and you might always have some limitations on your diet, but as you focus on that healing, it's more like what's going to shift my microbiome and the direction that I want it to. So if it might be avoiding FODMAPs for a period of time or avoiding sugar for an antifungal diet, that's another, just huge, huge, huge one that not only helps from a metabolic standpoint, far as carbs and fat and things like that, but helps star or, yeah, starve off candida or yeast. Yeast has a receptor on its membrane that when it's a sugar receptor and it turns it from the like dormant form into the hyphal form, which is like planting roots, and so its roots can extend up to three feet in the body, which is insane. So that's where sugar comes in as far as feeding yeast. But that's just a really, really common thing that I see too as an underlying driver. It's probably even in the world of autoimmunity, like the world of Hashimoto's, let's say. I see a lot of Hashimoto's. It's for sure the single most common thing I see in Hashimoto's patients. If you do a gut test and a yeast test and just with, like, what helps them? More? Antifungal stuff really, really helps people to reduce their fungal burden. And I'm also a huge, huge mold guy, so we could talk about mold for as long as we have available today. But I would say that yeast you know, it's not always mold in your basement or mold in your bathroom or mold in your crawl space, sometimes mold in your sinuses or mold in your gut. But I think that all of those things just contribute to fungal burden and all together I would say fungal burden, I would say as a major driver of both symptoms autoimmunity and otherwise.

So, speaking of mold and carnivore and these things, have you seen Jordan Peterson's daughter? So she does. She has very bad autoimmune issues. She's on a strict carnivore diet. It solved her issues that she had for all of her life. But she made some posts recently I don't know if you saw this about her finding out that she had mold, very mad mold, and that's just an interesting connection there I want to try to pull it out. I mean.

I'm not the least shocked. I mean, I think that if most people look not to say that they all have it, but especially if you've got some kind of autoimmune presentation it is really, really common. And mold and mycotoxins are known as the master antigens, so they just stimulate massive immune response and there's just a lot of things that fall under the category of fungal burden. So you can have mold colonization, which is it living inside your body, inside your gut, inside your lungs, inside your sinus, vaginal yeast infections, et cetera. Or you can have mycotoxins for mold, which is what a lot of people are talking about when we talk about mold toxicity. So one of those is killed with antifungals. You know, from a pharmaceutical standpoint and I stand flu convozol from an herbal standpoint, herbal antifungals, whatever but you're trying to kill mold or yeast living inside your body. The other one is mold toxins, and so you get mold toxins that accumulate and it says in the literature they accumulate for a lifetime, they could have an indefinite existence, and they accumulate in the cells and they just drive massive disruption of things. And so there's a lot of inflammation, neuro excitation, a lot of brain based things, because it's diagnosed, there's a mold camp that diagnosis it as chronic inflammatory response syndrome, which is a brain based mechanism, but anyway they just wreak havoc. And I could go on and on. I've got just dozens and dozens, hundreds of studies, probably hundreds, all explaining this, and so I showed just people the pictures. I've got videos on YouTube just talking about it and it's a hot thing in functional medicine especially. But the other thing with that too right, I would say it's just like breathing clean air, it's not always mold. My office had formaldehyde for two years and I knew that something was making me. Not, it wasn't even sick, I wouldn't even say sick, it was making my nose run more than anything, and every time I'd oze on my office it would go away and then, like two weeks later, my nose would be running by Friday after I'd been in my office all week, and two be two years. But I got a formaldehyde meter and that's what it was. But I'm just a huge believer of breathing clean air and like ionizers and air purifiers, and so we talk about that and I think that again, it's one of those things that there's different camps that say, well, you can't do this and you can't do this, and you got to do it this way and you got to do it this way, and I'm more of the belief of like well, each one of you is probably right in your own regard. So what's the right situation for the person that I'm talking to? So we teach people even like, how to use things like foggers or ozoners or air purifiers or ionizer or whatever air scrubbers. We have them in our office too. We rent them out to people here locally. So I just a huge fan of breathing clean air, whether it's dust or pesticides or whatever the case is.

So how do you when, how do you one diagnose somebody with mold? Like? What types of tests you like? Is that like a total? I think it's like total burden or total talks or something like that is the good one.

You all? I don't know. There is a. There's a couple total talks, ones that usually look at a lot of chemicals and things. There might be a one comprehensive toxin panel, but it's usually your urine mycotoxins is what I use, or an Oat test or antibodies. I don't do the mycotoxin antibodies Some people do, but I do urine mycotoxins and I'd say that's what most people in the profession uses urine mycotoxins. Now there's like a lot of other tests. There's a lot of controversy about it of like some food based mycotoxins, but generally what we see is that people that are excreting more mycotoxins they have more, and one of the guys that I like in usually seriously check this out. I would recommend it for anybody. It's a YouTube video. It's from a seminar that I was at is for doctors, but it's on the company of the guy that they're interviewing. He's an ENT surgeon. They put it on their YouTube channel. So the YouTube channel is called micro balance micro balance, health products I think micro balance and anyway he talks about he's an ENT surgeon and he says if somebody is excreting like two mycotoxins on their urine test, they might have 11 of them in their pituitary. He said it's a toxic soup up there. It's not like it's just one or the other. Sometimes what we're excreting isn't a direct reflection of everything that's in there. But airborne toxins especially have a direct access up the olfactory nerve right to the brain and then they can store in those areas and then for a lot of people it's let's say it's the let's say that I would say it's deep midline areas of the brain. So let's say it's the amygdala, well, that's going to be anxiety and panic. That's the feeder sensing area. And let's say it's the pituitary, well then that's going to be hormone fluctuations or frequent urination. You know, one time I had this kid. I just mentioned this on another podcast. I had this kid who was drinking 500 ounces of water a day. I was like that's mold. And they tested their house and there's mold all over. So that's pituitary. For some people it's going to be more, I don't know basal ganglia and they're going to have more OCD ticks, different things. But it's all this inflammatory processes in these deep midline areas of the brain from airborne toxins and to his point. We can't really measure what all's up there. But if we're excreting some mycotoxins, this is the sign that we've got at least some in our body. And then going and looking through testing or looking through where's the exposure. You know I've had people with. I had somebody this summer with MS test her work and quit her job after finding massively high levels of mycotoxins at her work, and so just different things like that. But I do use a urine mycotoxin test. But I like to layer the testing too, because again, what you want to confirm or have some strong suspicions for is do they have colonization or do they have mycotoxins? And then you go and look for sourcing, or is it from your old house that you lived in five years ago, is it currently? And so not jumping to dropping 10K on like testing your whole house, but just talking through a lot of these things is how we kind of figure out appropriate next steps and saying, okay, well, where do we think it could be coming from now versus past? And then looking into other exposures too. You know I've had somebody recently who they his wife has sinus issues, so mold was on our radar for that and so we were looking and they did some mold plates, which is like the most inexpensive way to test. But their mold plates looked really nasty so they sent it off to a lab and then they had a mold testing person come and test and they got a remediate and blah, blah, blah. But the husband, he reacts more. We're finding now two chemicals. He's been around pesticides and had these reactions, these autoimmune reactions. He has Hashimoto's. He was diagnosed with graves but it was, I think, a misdiagnosis and he really has Hashimoto's. But anyway he reacts around chemicals. So he's like I get it around in a new car, I get it around a chlorinated pool, I get it around. There's another one recently was just like airborne toxins cause him to flare and react. So anyway, I think that just breathing clean air, I forgot even what the question was. I was just ravelled about mold stuff but I love reading clean air. As one of the drivers, I would say, and I would say too, just tying back to our whole conversation, foods are the obvious one. So that's where a lot of people reach. Where I said, like you know, the healing has to reach a certain level before the restrictions come down. Mold drives food sensitivities, so it can drive increased permeability and increased food sensitivities, and so it can drive other reactivities. So I think that foods is an easy thing to check off as a first thing, but it's not often the only thing, and so I often see people, after they've kind of gone through that, that you know freshman year of autoimmunity and they're moving on to some of the higher level stuff.

I love that you brought the conversation to mental health, because it's one. It's such a loaded topic, but it's crazy. People have this perception of their mental health issues as genetic or a imbalance in their neurotransmitters or something that they can do nothing about, or that the only solution is an SSRI or whatever it may be, and bringing the conversation more towards this holistic, functional medicine type of approach is it's fascinating. It's a fascinating world.

It absolutely is, because I think that even the more you look into it, it's like how you can't, you can't possibly address it without it. I'm looking to see. I don't have it because I've told you I'm on my new computer, I'm trying to switch over desktop stuff, but I've got a paper on my computer that just says mold inhalation causes innate immune system activation and mood and behavioral brain imbalances. And you know, when you look at just some of the the studies that I show people, you can illustrate that pretty quickly that there's a direct connection. I just did an interview on my podcast that's not even out yet with this guy who's a pediatrician and the topic was mold, mycotoxins and mental health and kids and he just said like 10 years ago this got on his radar and now it's now he realizes like every person he sees with different behavioral imbalances ADHD, ocd, depression etc it's got to at least be screened or ruled out. And I've heard that said from like Dale Bredesen, who's the top Alzheimer's expert in the country. He's out of UCLA. I've heard him say the same thing about mycotoxins and Alzheimer's. He speaks on that pretty, pretty commonly and not to say it's the only thing, but he says it's a hidden epidemic of these airborne toxins driving these neuro imbalances yeah, neuro imbalances, let's say that can lead to neuro degeneration.

I mean we're seeing this huge uptick in autoimmunity. We started the podcast and talking about it, but it's if you look at the graphs, it's going up exponentially. And you know you have some people blame in seed oils and whatever it may be, but it just seems like it's this thing of we're getting attacked in every which direction.

Well, I think the bucket the bucket theory really summarizes a lot of it of like, because it's the seed oils, it's the glyphosate that's sprayed on the plants, it's the airborne pollution and it's just all those things and that just continually fill the bucket. And I have to say that any one of those is like the, you know, going to blame anyone for a causation, you're never going to be able to put a finger on it. But it's this cumulative effect that these are just all stressors on the body. And so as you just put more and more stress on the body, then sometimes there's one straw that breaks the camel's back, but there's no real needle in the haystack. It's just all those things together.

So what should we be doing like as a whole, as people in general, if you're dealing with autoimmune diseases or not, to prevent yourself from getting attacked by all these hidden stressors that we have?

Yeah, that's a good question and first off, you know, again I hate to say that I have all the right answers, but I just think, in general, that word stress of like how can you decrease the stress response or chronic stress response and that doesn't mean, like you know, go go live in Bali as a Buddhist monk or something on the beach, which probably wouldn't be too bad, but it just means, like how can you decrease all the external stress or internal stress in your body? There's mental and emotional stress. So just as far as, like I mean there's a million ways to to work on that, as far as prayer, meditation, a faith-based practice, exercise, and I'm saying outside of supplements, because I think that supplements become after some of these foundational things but I think it's stress from a mental and emotional standpoint and I'm happy to dive into any of those things further. Even we in our office do neurofeedback. There's different things like I've got a thing over here I can show you that's cool. It's audio visual and training. It's headphones and glasses flashing lights that entrains your brain to certain wavelengths. So I'm super into all those gadgets and things for the brain. But even in heart math there's just another, easier one, more accessible and less expensive and things like that. But I again I don't want to step over pennies for dollars or whatever it is. Maybe I'll set it backwards, but I think that some of those basics. But for mental health, then I think, physical health, you know, exercise, you know, right now I'm sitting but I just got a standing desk because I don't like sitting too much. And you know, just not being sedentary, not over-training also, I see you go both directions, but exercise is just a great way of just minimizing stress and keeping it healthy in every single regard. And I'll tell you, too, my four most important like lifestyle things in a second. But then also toxic stress of well, what do you need to focus on? And I'm also a fan of like micro cycles, macro cycles, of spend three months focusing on your gut and that might be like a better diet and things like that. And then you might spend three months focusing on your, your physical aspect, and that doesn't mean that you're not working out for the three months of gut focus, but it might not be your focus. And just if you look at like you know, the life wheel or things like that that people draw, it's like just shifting those focuses for micro cycles and macro cycles, depending on what your goal is. So if your goal is stress or mental health, spend a month doing that or whatever, whatever period of time it is. But so those three things mental and emotional health, physical, physical stress and toxic stress so that might be detoxing or doing lab testing or saying now I'm going to go, look at a mold, I'm going to spend three months focusing on this or whatever. The case is Another thing that I say and, again, just combining some of these principles or thoughts, or just life, or environment, environment, environment. I have something. I'm trying to picture it. I usually draw things, I'm very visual, but it's for most important lifestyle inputs. And I think the food is the last one, but I still think it's important. But I think that first is the air quality. Again, I'm huge, just huge on that. I've just seen it cause so many things. I think. Next is the light and circadian rhythms. I'm big on that, big on the early morning, sunlight, big on. Usually have blue blackened glasses, infrared sauna, you know all those things and gadgets and stuff like that. I've got a infrared light or a red light right over there too. So we got all this stuff like literally like right at my fingertips. I got a TENS device sitting over here for Vegas nerve stimulation. This is like my office just needs to clean up more than anything, and it's sitting on my Austin air purifier, so we got just stuff all over the place that air quality, light quality, then exercise, then diet. In my opinion, I think you can out exercise a bad diet in many regards. You know my grandpa, who's 96 or something. He his, his diet has not been perfect it's still not, but he's always exercised and moved and I do think you can out exercise some things, diet wise. But I think that the light is an overlooked one and I think that the air is the most overlooked one.

Yeah, I love those. I actually love that order because, I mean, I I think most people, like the person who's not well versed in this world, will probably have those things flipped Right. Yeah, but if you are the person who's in the thick of it, you start to realize that that's true, like yeah, cause if you cause.

If you've got the air and the light and exercise figured out, then you don't have to be nearly as restrictive on your diet as far as even on labs and symptoms, certainly. But those restrictions come down and not to say I like to tell people that I want you to be avoiding foods because you think you should, not because you have to. You know, and most people come to me and they have to eat this super restrictive diet and they can't touch this or they can't touch that. So yeah, it's just thinking that, making those better choices because you want to, but avoiding things like gluten, dairy sugar, whatever the case is.

So detoxing. I'm fascinated by this, because we look at all the stuff we talked about today, from whether it's mold or just these toxins in general, it seems like the sauna is an incredible way to detox. But outside of the sauna, what are some things that you think are some major keys for actively detoxing, and should this be something that we are constantly doing, or is this things that we should be cycling?

I think a little bit of both. You know, I think that you're never, you're never not detoxing, but maybe, like I said, micro, macro cycles, maybe a little more aggressive, focus on it for a period of time and I'm a fan of like if you're going to go at it, go hard at it and stack the scale in your favor. So maybe, for you know, 60 to 90 days taking binders, glutathione binders and glutathione are probably the top two supplements for detox.

And binders you're meaning like charcoal.

Yeah, charcoal, humic and fulvic acids are very popular and trendy and that would be like chilidget Chilidget, yeah, I don't know nearly as much about chilidget, but yeah, it is a binder but also humic and fulvic Like, I think. I mean they're usually just called humic and fulvic acid, but, like, cell core binders are very famous Core parasites, mold, heavy metals. And I like doing blends too, ryan. So like, and I also like I might have people cycle their binders because different binders have different affinities for different toxins. So I might have people take a blend that has charcoal, chilidget, zeolite, bentonite, clay, and this might just be, you know, take two a day or take four a day or whatever, and then when that bottle's done let's switch to a different one just to bind other toxins in a different way. But doing binders, now I think there are some concerns with long-term binders. They can bind minerals and things like that. But I think that keeping an eye on things but I don't think that again, even in the mold world, you know, a lot of times you'll hear scary numbers like takes five years to get better, which I don't disagree with. In some cases it kind of depends on what you define as better, but doing it for periods of time. I also do a lot of binders as I'm doing gut protocol. So as we're killing things in the gut, we want to bind that dye off or bind LPS, which is a major driver of autoimmunity and inflammation. So I'll often do binders for, like you know, the first three to six months of somebody, even if we're I a lot of times. Just in general, I don't follow like any cookie cutter protocol. I would generally start with the gut and so we might be doing binders as part of a gut protocol and then we might shift the focus more to detox, but binders are a good thing to stay on. The mechanism of binders too is interesting because this also explains some of the other supplements and other strategies. But so the liver takes toxins, breaks them down in in let's phase one and phase two detox, and so that's important. And even when you're like interpreting genetics and things like that, you can see a lot of these things. A lot of people I see their their like life is a wreck, but their genetics are like pretty good, or vice versa. So genetics, I think, is another flash in the pan thing that you could easily spend like several grand on genetic interpretation or you could do, like a 23 in me and or whatever you want, to use it and run it through some software for 40 bucks or something and get a really detailed report of your methylation and other things.

But anyway, phase one software is that you recommend, for that I like well, my favorite is strategy, strategy and from Ben Lynch it's also.

It's pretty heady, it's pretty nerdy, it's like a show's a lot of the pathways. But I like strategy and I also like neutral hackers free, like their detox and methylation report is free. So a lot of the genetics that we really care about are the detox genes and methylation genes. You know I don't care so much about. Do you have, like genes for better cognition or genes for longevity or things like that? They're. They're cool to know. But I'd say my four favorites that I've used personally strategy neutral hacker. Found my fitness. Round to Patrick's yeah, software is really good. Round to Patrick's awesome, and I did self decode from. I forget his name but self the self hacked guy, joe, yeah yeah.

So, anyway, what is it? Is it Joe Lucky? Is that his name?

I don't know, that doesn't sound right, I was.

I was just looking at the like yesterday Joe Cohen, Joe Cohen, that's what they did. Yeah, yeah, that's a good platform.

Yeah, yeah, and he's legit. You know. He kind of got into this game pretty early and made a huge name for himself and a huge business and really is smart, smart dude. But he got into it from healing his own stuff. So it's a great. It's a great, you know system and you can print different reports and different cognitive reports or different detox reports or different athletic performance reports. So it kind of depends on what you want to dive into for those things. But in the autoimmune functional wellness world I think that the detox genes are the most important. They regulate things like methylation the most famous detox process glucuronidation, sulfation All those are just different processes by which toxins and neurotransmitters and hormones or things are what's called biotransform. So the liver does a lot of that and takes these toxins and then puts them into bile. And bile is because that's the point of binders too, is they're called bile binders, but then toxins are excreted, but bile is really expensive for the body to make, so the body reabsorbs bile. So if you've got thick, toxic, sludgy bile, then your body can reabsorbing and recirculating toxins. You want to bind those toxins so you get them out and excrete them and then your body produces more bile, and so that's also a kind of a liver cleansing concept, even like another supplement company that's great is Quicksilver, and they've got a detox protocol, but it's called Push Catch. So it's push toxins out of the liver and catch them in the gut with binders. So I just think that, even if you're not using their products, that whole concept is a lot of what you can do for detox. So let's say you're going through for 60 days, you're going to sauna three times a week and you're going to do a push catch detox protocol. Well, great, you're going to lower your toxic load for a macro cycle of 60 days or something like that, and that's great. Now you could also do other liver supports. As part of just that same concept. You can do lymphatic supports, which just keep toxins moving out of the body is basically the whole point. So and I always say too, there's only a few ways that your body gets rid of toxins you poop them out, you pee them out, you breathe them out and you sweat them out. So that's where sauna comes in, is like some of these. You don't really want to speed up too much. If somebody is constipated, though, that's step number one for detox, if they've got to be moving things out of their body. So sometimes in a lot of even detox protocols we'll start with kidney support, start with liver support, start with gut support, make sure that those doorways are open. But I always say with the saunas, like what if you open up a fourth door? You know what? If you're in a basketball game and somebody pulls the fire alarm or something and only three doors are open, you open a fourth door all of a sudden. Everybody can get out a little more efficiently. So sometimes that's the value of opening up one of those doors from a from a detox standpoint. But I think that all those things, whatever supports those pathways, is what you can do for detox. So I mentioned glutathione. That's another great one. I mean it could be argued that almost any supplement on the shelf like supports detox. You know, b vitamins are great, liver support is great. Anything that helps cellular mechanics is going to help getting keeping toxins out. I think that again, going back to the balance and the bucket is like if you can balance that the outflow is more than the inflow, you're going to move in a healthier direction. And so that's increasing these excretion pathways but also decreasing the exposure pathways at the same time.

I'm gonna hit you with a hard one here, because so originally I was going to ask you what are the five supplements that you recommend most for the people you work with, but I think I want to extend that to 10 supplements that you are the that you tend to find yourself recommending the most.

Sure, I need to round down, because I just tell me where I'm at with number one.

Okay, I'm gonna be. I'm gonna be in the depth.

All right, I think that the first one is probably histamine stuff, and I'm saying histamine stuff because there's within that category there's probably six or eight different things, but they all have histamine in the name. So most histamine supports have quercidin as like the starring role, but they might have Luteolin, they might have other things in them, and again, I use different blends for different reasons, but like this one is called histaid, it's from Quixilver. Again, it's liposomal, so the absorption is great for brain or mouth or anything up here. There's others that I might use more for reflux, but histamine something, okay, I'd say. The second one is glutathione. I love glutathione. It personally has really helped me, and so I mean I'm a little bit biased towards it, but I've also it's by far the most popular or something that we've ever sold. So, and I see a lot of people that like, especially here in town, they maybe saw me like two, three years ago and now they're. Now they're pretty good, they're, you know, if they're, there's a lot of people that if they, if the problems arise, they're going to call me, like I'm still their doctor, but they're, or they're their health coach, whatever you want to call it, but it's obviously they're chiropractor, whatever, but they I haven't seen them for two, three years, but they might still come in and buy glutathione, so glutathione is really popular. I like apexes. I also like research nutritionals. As far as my two favorite brands Next might be well, I mean as far as just a great one, this is like a butyrate. So again, I'm seriously you're like maybe realize how much crap I've said or what, but this is a butyrate. Supplement from apex is called tributyrin. Now, butyrate is an interesting one, right Cause it's like probably the one that's the most important, probably the one that most people should be on. If you read like a bunch of autoimmune research and literature and get into the studies and stuff, you're going to be like I didn't take this for the rest of my life. That's one that I like how my parents take and stuff, but it's also not one that's necessarily going to nudge the needle. So in the first three months that somebody's working with me, I'm trying to nudge the needle and make sure, make them feel better and make them know they're on a right track and things like that. So I might not use that right off the bat, but as far as important, that one's great. The next three well, I guess it's got to be two, because that's one of them is butyrate, but the next two I often use this gut protocol, or this gut combo, I should say, of glutamine powder, which I'll tell you some brands, but every brand has a good glutamine powder. Most brands do, but a glutamine powder, a bovine immunoglobulins, and I use a butyrate. So this combo I'll use ortho molecular research that's the brand. I'll use their product called Glutashield and it's vanilla flavored. So that matters in a second. And then I'll use SBI Protect, from the same company which stands for serum bovine immunoglobulins. So it's SBI Protect, it's unflavored but it's another powder. And then I'll use this liquid butyrate from pure encapsulations called sun butyrate, and it's vanilla blueberry flavored. So if somebody mixes all like two powders in a liquid into a smoothie and they do that every day it's a killer gut protocol. So sometimes they might add in a powder probiotic or something like that, depending on what they need. But if I can get them on the habit of that, that's a great habit. Now the next one. While I'm just even rolling, I'll come back to no, I think that's everything. Also, with glutamines I also use pure encapsulations, epi integrity, and I also use Apex's RepairVite GT Plus. Sometimes and I'll be I'm always honest with people about why I make the recommendations I make. Repairvite GT Plus is probably the most high dose of things for like like a straight up inflamed gut, like IBD, but it also has 60 servings. So sometimes if I want people to take it twice a day I'm giving them RepairVite GT Plus instead of one of the others, just because of the number of servings in there. Then the next one I would say, even while I stick on powders is called ClearVite. Clearvite is from Apex. Also I do a lot of Apex stuff because my mentor is Dr Karazium. So Detease Karazium is a big name in autoimmunity, a big name in neuro stuff. He's on staff now at Harvard and so publishes research on autoimmunity, on neuro stuff, but especially autoimmunity. That's his specialty. But anyway he formulates all Apex's products. So a lot of these are Apex products. Or even my other mentor in the autoimmune world is named Sam Yannick and he helps formulate products for pure encapsulations. So I use both of a lot of those because I've learned from both of those leaders. But anyway, clearvite I use there. There's like six different ClearVites. I use one called ClearVite GL. It's the only one that I carry in my office and store. But the GL stands for Greenless, greenless grain. Like no grains, no corn, no yeah. So again for the autumn and people, I just like I don't mess with any of the others. If one of them is grainless, then let's just stick with that for everybody. But it's the the purpose of it. Ryan is like if you look at it, it's got like 75 ingredients in it, but the purpose is for phase one, phase two, liver detox. So it's basically a detox powder. And Apex has a pro program you know every company's got the programs and things like that but it's called repair and clear. So it's like repair for the gut. It's repair the gut and clear the liver. So you're doing those two things at the same time. It's kind of like that push catch. But sometimes just the names of these programs teach people how to apply products in combination also. So yeah, what am I at? Like seven or eight.

We got. We have six done so far.

Wait, a second. Really Only six.

Okay, so we have histamine sports, Glutathione, butyrate glutamine powder the bovine immunogoblin and the clear right.

That's seven, isn't it?

Did I miss count One, two, three, four, five, six.

Okay, baby, I was doing my fingers while you said it, but I might have it doing my fingers wrong. I can keep going. I got a zillion. We carry like six hundred on ourselves. Five hundred, um, I mean, I don't know. I don't want to be generic to say fish oil, but fish oil is just a great one. That I'll do. I'll do omega checks on people just to confirm, you know. Because what again? I think that a lot of people what we're looking for is what's your missing piece? Yeah, so a lot of people. If they're omega's, fine, then guess what? That's not your missing piece and you can keep taking it, but let's focus on what your missing piece is. So I'd say another one, vitamin D. And if I'm going to throw in combo, vitamin D, vitamin A, vitamin D, vitamin A just really important for permeability, for tolerance, for auto immunity, for things like that. So I think that was obviously very famous, especially vitamin D. But I also think usually if one fat soluble vitamin is low, there's probably other fat soluble vitamins that are low. So I'll do vitamin D and vitamin A together. Pretty often Vitamin A is also in that one that I mentioned called called Glutashield, which is the vanilla glutamine powder. So and I just said fish oil, vitamin D, vitamin A, let's say a couple others, maybe more obscure. Okay, I got two more great ones. Both are from Apex. One's called Gabaton. Gabaton and GABA is just, I would say, an important mechanism for a lot of people, even in the context of stress. You know, now I'm thinking of three more, so we're going to two, eleven. Right, that's good Good Gabaton, neuroflam and adaptocrine. So all three of those are brain ones and they're just big picture brain concept mechanisms that there's a zillion neurotropics, there's a zillion different things out there that are great for the brain and again some trial and error things. So let me talk about Gabaton and neuroflam. So, because I got a couple stories. So Gabaton is more for calming nervous system excitation. The nervous system gets over excited and if that's in the amygdala, it's going to be fear and panic. If that's in the vestibular system, it's going to be like why is the room spinning? If that's in other areas, it's just hyperactivity of the brain and nervous system. Even even you know peripherally, and I always say like you know, if you, if you had neuropathy, they're going to put you on GABA, pentane or things like that, but they're just, it's GABA pathways and this isn't GABA as a direct supplement. You can take GABA as a direct supplement, but this is GABA modulator. So there's things like B6, magnesium, lithium, valerium, rube, passionflower, chamomile, but they're all GABA modulators and so that's one. The other one's called neuroflam for neuro inflammation. You know, sometimes the names are like I don't know, but the neuroflam, that's great name because it basically makes a lot of sense. But yeah, so anyway. So two stories. This is. This happened. It was now two weeks ago, I think, but I had two people right in a row that one of them was a guy. He's been 29. He's on the east coast, he's got long COVID and a lot of neuro things that and he's doing, doing really well. And he said some things like you know, I haven't needed, I haven't needed a Zyrtec, it's all fall, which was a surprise for him and just different things as far as his gut, sensitivities, reactivities. But he said that GABA tone. I noticed immediately. I love that. He said neuroflam, not so much. So it's like okay, guess which one we're going to stick with? We're going to stick with GABA tone and I would recommend you keep doing that. Then I had another person that's got migraines, dizziness, vertigo and a mineers disease, different things like that, and she said the opposite. Basically she's like, okay, neuroflam is my friend, gaba tone not so much. So okay, great, that's a. Sometimes these mechanisms are hard to elucidate, even on labs or things like that. But if somebody responds well to neuroflam, then I'm going to say your brain's probably inflamed and probably it's the key word. I'm not diagnosing them with anything, I'm just saying hey, if you respond well to anti -inflammatories, you're probably inflamed. I've had people come to me because they take an ibuprofen and their depression goes away and they're like what the heck helped me look for the root cause of this inflammation. But both of those neuroflam, gaba tone or whatever in those two order both of those are two of my most popular, and I also have people I I will recommend to them to find. This is what Karazian says. He says we know these supplements will work. How do you know how much to give somebody? And he says when you fill your hand and it feels like a lot, add some more. So a lot of times, if we're trying to work on some of these mechanisms, a higher dose than what's recommended is necessary. So sometimes we'll say take as much as is needed and I've learned that from several mentors and obviously you know that's up to whoever you're working with. I don't want to tell people to like go above the recommended amount, but you absolutely can and sometimes that's what it takes as far as nudging the needle to block neuroinflammation or block neuro excitation, sometimes higher doses, now other supplements you should not do high doses, you're gonna really regret it. So it's there's. There's a slippery slope of just some or better at high doses. Some are better low and slow, but just kind of knowing how to strategize those. And then the third one that I said that I think is number 11 is a blend of adaptogens and again, a lot of companies have their adaptogenic herbs, a lot of different. Even like this product probably has adaptogens it's called anxiety, but it probably has adaptogens and some B vitamins and some GABA things. So just combo of things. But adaptogenic herbs are calming for the hormonal system and calming for the nervous system and really decrease the amount of stress chemistry that is produced. So I had even somebody in last week that was like okay, that that is a game changer for me, like okay, sweet, well, and I even told her at the time I was like I'm kind of intrigued to see how you do with gavatone, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Let's just stick with that one right now and focus on something else. She's also just kind of, you know, sharing stories obviously anonymous, but she has had a lot of hormonal issues, like like at one point she had she was bleeding for like months on then and and a lot of that's a lot better, and she just had an internal ultrasound that showed a lot of that's a lot better, like the thickening of her lining and different things like that. So sometimes and we haven't been like I don't know, we haven't been taking like a hormonal supporting supplements. Really we've been focusing on her gut and detox and inflammation and foods and kind of all the topics that we've been talking about, but her cycles improving and even the internal imaging is improving for that too awesome so, so anyway, I think that was 11 was that 11?

that was 11. Sweet, let's go three. So there's three supplements that I wanted to that weren't on the list or kind of on the list that I wanted to ask you about, first one being a multivitamin, and I'm gonna preface that by saying a good multivitamin something like thorn or apparent capsulations or something that's a has the vitamins in the right forms yeah, what's your thoughts on taking like a daily multivitamin for most.

I think it's a good idea. I mean, just in general. I'm not opposed to the idea. I think it's more of a maintenance thing, so it's not something that's heavily used in my practice. But I do think that you know you want to get your your micronutrient needs and and things like that, so I think it totally makes sense. I'm more I don't personally take one, because I take enough things that have bees and minerals and a lot of those micronutrients in them that I don't feel like I'm deficient in any particular one. But I think that cover all your bases from a micronutrient standpoint is just a good idea. I think the micronutrient even testing is very hard to accurately do, but I do think that that's just a good idea. A lot of people you know. The most common things I would say are multi fish oil and maybe probiotic yeah yeah, yeah, my needs are super common also and it's super good. But again, like if somebody is doing great on it, like I said somebody and recently I forgive him as the same person but they're like I'm taking this magnesium but it helps keep my bowels regular so I want to stay on it like perfect, stay on it. You and I always tell people I'm going to recommend you the assignment and you can do extra credit if you want. There's a million good things and if you read like a book on magnesium or let's do a podcast on magnesium, you're like, oh crap, everybody needs this.

So I think I'm both eyes the way to just get all those micronutrients and then so one I I've been fascinated by this past week I've been looking into is L carnitine oh, that's a great one I took.

I took 1500 milligrams of carnitine this morning oh yeah, so so and that's one too right that could be tested. So like I see that really commonly on oat test, because the oat test has a whole section for fatty acid oxidation and it says on many of the markers of the oat test it says regardless of cause, supplementation with L carnitine or acetyl L carnitine may be beneficial for this marker. So a lot of those mitochondrial markers are based on fatty acid beta oxidation and things like that and that gets blocked by toxins. That gets blocked. So I'll show people. I've got a series of studies that I'll show people and I just like one, two, three that one says solvents. Solvents or aldehydes says solvents are able to concentrate in the mitochondria and accumulation of these solvents in liver mitochondria inhibits fatty acid beta oxidation. So and carnitine solves that, or carnitine is the, the, not me, I solve, but you get the points of the need for that but toxins could be the root cause. One time I also tell this story all the time one time I was going through somebody's lab. It was like hey, need for carnitine? She was at the Mr Olympia competition with her husband, like bodybuilding, and they were in their hotel room and she was like hey, hunn, haven't you taken carnitine before and he was like, yeah, bodybuilders take it before shows to lean up and I was like, really that's interesting, I never heard that before I heard him take a thyroid but it's like kind of the same concept. I don't I don't really see it work like that for like women and weight loss and things like that. I I think they wish it would, I think that I wish it would, but I think it helps for sure. I think it's a great thing to try for metabolism and weight loss, but there's also some studies that I'll show the pictures of. I've got some cool YouTube videos about carnitine too, like I have one that's called like toxins, carnitine and depression and it talks about the neurotransmitter links with carnitine also. So and I think I go through some, some studies showing, like you know, carnitine's, what carnitine deficiencies linked to depression.

Basically so, on the topic of carnitine, in terms of fat loss, what I've heard was that it's incredibly timing dependent and you have to be. There is like a certain window. Um, I think it's 30 to 60 minutes before exercise. Okay is how you get the fat loss effects, and if you don't do it in that time, you won't get any fat loss effects interesting.

What doses have you heard about? Because I've heard of people doing like up to 3 000 milligrams um, probably more, I'm sure, but uh, do you know anything about the dosing?

I think it's uh. Depending on the person. What I heard was 1500 or up to 3500.

Yeah okay, that's about what I've heard too, because a lot of these studies, you know they're done in mice and things like that, it's hard to interpret. But a lot of things again, even once you get past like the surface level, like currently, this is good, then you see the people that are really nudging the needle. Sometimes they're taking crazy amounts. Like there's a lot of B1 therapy right now. That's like crazy, insane amounts of B1 thiamine and it's that's what's been shown to be beneficial. So I think that those are always intriguing. I'm always leery to recommend that to somebody, but again, I'm just kind of sometimes just leading people towards hey, listen to this podcast or this is out there. But yeah, I think that quarantine is a cool thing and a beneficial thing and just generally a high need.

Anything we haven't talked about today that you think is pretty fundamental to your work, or just this world of health in general.

No, but I think you said you had a third. Didn't you say you had three, that you? Oh, magnesium, magnesium yeah yeah, I think the different forms of magnesium could be helpful in different ways. But yeah, I think magnesium is pretty just easy, easily accessible but just beneficial thing. And magnesium three in a is more known across the blood brain barrier. Managing glycinate is probably the most popular, but they're all good. This has many is in Tori and Tori is really calming and helpful for GABA and helpful for gallbladder. But no, I don't think there's anything going back to your question right now. There's anything that we that we haven't talked about. But again, I think my whole thing is, I think, hopefully been illustrated in this interview of just keep all the plates spinning and sometimes your priorities might change. Like you know, you could be a I see world class athletes that lose their health completely because of some other cause or mechanism. So sometimes it's like you're, you might be the boss of all bosses in the exercise realm, but if you're living in toxicity, I this person who's a top 10 CrossFit athlete and she she hasn't had a. She was having breathing issues. Long story short, I'm not going to go too into detail, but she hasn't had a breathing issues since she moved out of her place and they'd had it mold tested. She'd done a bunch of testing. They thought it was all good, I think. But just you know, the proof was in the pudding of moving out and her breathing improved. So sometimes those environmental things can outweigh some of that. You're really really good at. So keeping all those plates spinning, kind of like a golf. Or I always say if you're really smashed it off the tee it helps, but if you suck around the green you're not going to be good and you need to be a little bit good in all those areas and you're going to score pretty well and if you get off track you just got to get back on track and it happens to everybody. So I think you know I'm a golfer but I think it's a good metaphor for the wellness world and it's also to you know I use it as a metaphor for what I do because I've taken golf lessons before and so when I go to my golf lessons the first thing the guy says my coach says he's like grab your club and start swinging and he's just watching to see how things are working and he's looking to see what could be wrong and he's looking to see did last week's lesson or whatever, did it catch on? Are you doing that or are you not doing that? And he could tell pretty quickly. And if we're, if we're succeeding in last week's lesson, we're going to move on to this week, but if we're not, he's going to stop me right there and be okay, remember this. And we're going to spend the whole time and these are going to say you know, go and practice this in Europe in the next two weeks or whatever, and I'll see two weeks from now. So that's really really similar to how my practice. Works is like, if everything's a click in one area, then we're not going to be focusing on that area, we're going to be focusing on whatever's lagging behind so we can keep all those plates spinning.

So yeah, Dr Taylor, click Crick Dude. I'm so impressed by you. Thank you so much for this episode today. You're really to take this combine the best elements that we have available to us in this world of futuristic medicine and centralized medicine, but also to take this holistic approach and use more traditional type of ways of healing. It's inspiring to see man and I appreciate you.

Well, thanks a lot. I want to shout out to my podcast, to the autoimmune doc podcast. I got a YouTube channel as well. That's through my clinic, but I just got you know different, different things that I just put out content and that's even, honestly, how you and I connected and stuff is like I don't, I don't have a really. I mean I have my brick and mortar practice and my virtual practice, but I never have a business model behind my my stuff. I just liked educating people on these things because when you look at some of the science, it's out there. So I appreciate the opportunity to come on here, ryan, and check out my podcast, or check out my YouTube channel if you're curious, or my Instagram as well.

And I'll link to all that stuff in the show notes. Dude, have a great one.

Sweet Absolutely.