Behind the Business Success of Plunge with Co CEO Ryan Duey

Welcome back to the Alchemist Library podcast. Today on the show we have Ryan Dewey. Ryan Dewey is a repeat guest on the podcast and it was such a pleasure to reconnect with him for this episode. Ryan is an entrepreneur and the co-founder of Plunge. Plunge is a health and wellness company which sells cold plunges and saunas. Ryan is a fascinating individual and in the first episode we talked more of his personal story and in this one we talked more business. So this episode was truly a master class into the marketing and business success of the Plunge. I hope you guys enjoy. I'm going to leave you at that and catch you guys inside. Are you doing this work to facilitate growth or to become famous, mr Ryan Dewey? Thank you for coming on the pod today, brother.

My guy. Good to be back.

So I think our first episode was 14 months ago. It was episode 19 for me. What's changed in that time? What's new?

14 months ago. So that would have been. We're filming what Halloween 23, summer of 22.

I think it was late August of 22.

Yeah, I mean we full year in the company, which for us is probably five years in most companies. Yeah, I mean we like for us we've launched new products, gotten into new categories. Our team size has probably since then maybe quadrupled. So you know a lot of fun challenges that come with that of expanding the team, getting into new product categories and just growing the current market we're in with cold plunging.

So you said one year for you guys, kind of like five years for other people. What made you say that?

Yeah, I mean, I think like just right there, the team size I mean most companies don't quadruple and just people, and I don't even reckon it's a challenge. You know, that's a real, that's great challenge to face and there's a ton of integration that comes from it. I think, from a just a growth standpoint, even look at like a revenue number, like what took place in a year On average, is, you know, obviously, companies that grow much quicker than us but on average, I think, definitely more growth than what goes in. I mean, I go into in one year, like we went from last year. At this time we were still designing our sauna. So we went from design, which we had been working on prior to their 12 months, prior to that, with a group out of Wisconsin with the full intention that they would be contract manufacturing for us. So Mike and I are fully in the design mode of this, the engineering of the product. We were going to sell and market the product, as opposed to with our cold plunge model. We actually build these things in house. We should. We sell them pretty fully integrated where the sauna was going to be built and assembled at a different facility. We would sell and market it. Anyways, we launch. We did an early launch beginning of last year. It didn't go to plan in our from our contract manufacturers. They couldn't go at the scale and the quality of the speed that we needed them to go. Pivot we had actually gone public with the sauna at this time. We had said, hey, we are, you can go and put a refundable deposit on this sauna on our website. It was there, it was live With this, still understanding that they were going to be building this product and we had done that due to some marketing campaigns we had already had in place. One particularly was with the momentous and Dr Andrew Huberman. So we were like we got to get this on the site. We have to have a call to action. Anyways, that happens and we went from oh shit, these guys can't build this and this products already out, more or less available. We weren't ship, we obviously weren't shipping the product yet, but we were taking $250 refundable deposits To. We have to pivot this and build our own facility and hire our own team within 60 days. We did it within so that, launched May 1st, we Were up and running in our own house by end of June, beginning of July. Damn, so that you know, talk about like. It's definitely a quality that we have and it's something I'm very conscientious. As we grow, can we stay nimble, can we stay quick? Can you know it's like that. It's like startup companies are killers. You know they can make iterations and move on things, while larger companies are tankers that take so long to turn and shift and launch new things. So anyways, that was like a big win for us, but it was. You know, I think normally that's a probably at least a year process to even get the equipment, get that in house, train a team, hire a team. We had a couple things that fell in our favor. You know, the company next door to us Just happens to be a woodworking facility. They were downsizing. We took over their whole least, bought all their equipment, basically had a QR code because they were going to lay off their team. We went and they're, everyone in that warehouse that was going to get laid off could go put a QR code, put an application with us and get hired the next day. It was like, you know, we problem solved and we had the wind in our sales. But you know, those were the things that we had to move super quick and that's just the example of like things moving really quick with where we're at.

It's so what's your, what's your title with plunge Co?

CEO.

Co CEO.

Yeah.

So you are like if someone, if is your day to day just kind of whatever the company needs, or you focus on one particular side of the business. Is there anything that's like your exact focus or are you more just like big picture?

A Mike, and so Mike's co founder and we're co CEO. We have it's pretty clear delineation of where we cut it. He's product on people, that's like the most common and I'm a sounding board for anything's product. He's a sounding board for anything people. So we have we bounce things off there. So I tend to oversee, if you're like HR side, the customer support side, the marketing side, sales side, like that's. Though that team reports directly to me and Mike's more into the engineering, supply chain, manufacturing, you know those, and even finance kind of rolls up into him. My day to day. Yeah, man, it, it. There's definitely like a. There is some level of consistency. You know, one on ones with the team, with you know the VPs that report into me. We have we, we operate under like an EOS structure. I don't know if you're familiar with EOS is basically a think it stands for entrepreneurship operating system and it's a format of meeting structures and like continuity, and so we're kind of a hybrid of this where it's a very clear like each department has a very clear meeting structure with a scorecard and what you're meeting on weekly and the idea that we call it ideas, things you're working through. So we have like our leadership bell 10, which is all department heads meet in a room once a week and we call it like kind of nights at the round table where the best ideas come and we work through the biggest issues of that week within the company. We also have, like our executive L 10 structure so I'm in those meetings consistently. I do a lot of media. It's a big part of what I kind of my role of podcast interviews you know very, and then I'll get into the weeds in the marketing side. That's probably where I get in the most weeds of the company, because it's this area that, like fires me up into like, what is our messaging? How are we, like you know, how are we acquiring customers, and then what are we doing with those customers? So, yeah, the week, the week and very yeah, which I love.

I have to my hat to you on the marketing side of things because you guys have done such a masterful job marketing the plunge.

Thanks, man.

It's been really cool to see. I mean it's. I hear it everywhere. I hear it everywhere, I see it everywhere. The son is our beautiful, by the way, I didn't get a chance to congratulate you on that. You guys did such a great job designing that thing. But from this marketing side of things, like from a big picture perspective, for someone who is, like myself, looking to get into entrepreneurship, really wants to hone in on my marketing side of things, but doesn't have a formal knowledge about these type of topics, what has been the key things from a marketing standpoint that's allowed you guys to have success? For you personally, what, what has been the key lessons, things that you've really honed in on that allowed you guys to scale and have success early on?

Yeah, I think I'm similar to you. I don't really come from a marketing background like there's a lot, even as we've hired in higher ups in the marketing world. A lot of terminology I don't get in like you know. I'm like there's an advantage to that. You know, key for us for marketing it was always we had a, we had a product market fit early on and we were clear on that. So that's to me that's always the core thing you need to figure out is like does the world want this product, or at least some niche world want it? And you have to figure out what that metric is, because if it doesn't want, it's a very different marketing plan. Then, if the world's like, give it to me, I'm ready for this. And we were able to launch with a product out of the garage that was in high demand early with a product that had room for iteration and improvement, which we've done over time, but the world was like just get, I want a cold punch at this price point. So you know, for us it was a very like okay, how do we? We call it at this time in the company? We call it an entourage effect. How do we make it feel like this product is everywhere when in reality, it's only in? We only have the ability to get it at X number of people's hands, and so that that was a big amplifier for us. Exponentially, I think it's always finding the channels. That and then early on for us with this fits into this to is like our SEO play. I'm not an SEO guy. I don't have teams that now handle that. I, very high level, know that when you search something on the Internet, there's a world of how at the back end of what gets ranked at the top and how you can kind of hack this system. So for us, like from a marketing play was. You know, we, the company was always titled plunge, but we went with the cold plunge calm. That was a $10 domain that we were able to purchase online and we made a choice early on that. You know this is back in 2020, the term ice bath or cold plunge, if you Google trended that cold plunge was way behind ice baths, but we felt that the terminology we use cold plunge in our vernacular already and our group of friends and everyone that was doing it called it that we didn't say, hey, we're going to go take an ice bath. It was like, hey, you want a cold plunge? So we were like I believe that this will be the term that wins out. So we put our chips in. We bought the cold plungecom. We called the company. Plunge. Now is a huge win. Within the first month, we are first page ranking on Google. So we had some again, a way to make us feel very legit, very even larger than what we were, which, early on, you're trying to buy trust of the people. You're an early company. Who is this company saying what they're going to do? Can I trust this product? Can I trust the people behind it? So you need to present yourself in a way that creates trust, and so those are some early wins. That kind of, I think, catapulted us and made us feel maybe even more legitimate than if someone that walked into our building would have thought that we were. Yeah, and I think it's solving. You know what worked in. I'm discovering now it's like what worked for us two years ago is not the same playbook that works now. You know, culture is in a different place, people are in a different place, storytelling is different, what people are? You know, cold plunging has become a meme on the internet now. It's like everyone sees cold plunging. At the beginning it was great. We were able to partner with influencers that really wanted the product and it was like a really cool thing to see on social media. And now there's a tipping point where there's still a market for that and it's not something we're going to let go. But it's not the same playbook where you just someone saying the benefits of cold plunging on their Instagram and it's not going to have the same impact on you. So we need to get. We need to get better, we need to get more connected to what is the actual thing that resonates with people at this moment. So you know it's a constant, I think, really listening and being in tune with culture and the consumer.

It's so funny to see it go mainstream. Like just a few years back it was like only nerds like you and me who were super into the health stuff that knew about it. And now it's like I'm at the pool of the hotel and the people next to me are talking about cold plunging, and just you hear it everywhere. All people not even people into the whole health world are super into the cold plunging thing. But you mentioned the entourage effect. Can you describe what that is?

Kind of a self type itself to create a term that we had of the concept was we put, I think, 20 names on a board of people that we felt a lot that impacted us, felt we had an alignment with values and like interests, with large community followings, and we're like if we can get our product in front of these people, there is a true exponential, what we called the entourage effect, like it felt like we were everywhere and so we put those names on a board and then it was just the game of like how do we get to these people? How do we and you know again, that's where it comes back to do you have product market fit? You can't have a product that the world doesn't know and put the top names in categories and go after them. You know that's a different cell. We knew these people were interested in this product. Now it was how do we build a relationship with them or people within their network provide value? When we do get entered into that, you know that relationship. So that was the entourage effect. And then we did it early you can go still through our social. We did what we call our plunge tours, where we loaded the product up in U-Hauls and Mike and I would drive down to. You know, luckily a lot of these people were in LA and we drive down to LA and we would just go hand deliver these product and then we'd get to sit around not sit around, but we'd set the product up for them. So they would be like, wow, the founders are here at my house, like setting the product up, and we're like, and then we would hang out with them for a couple hours and we'd start to actually build genuine relationships. And then we would, you know, you get into their circle of trust. And then they say, hey, I have a friend that's interested, you know, and you just kind of play that game. And then we end up at, you know, tony Hawk's house or Andrew Huberman's house. It's like we got into that sphere. I think mostly just build relationships and build trust.

I mean, dude, you guys did such a great job of that. I mean, I think about, even on the early days, you had very big names talking about the plunge, talking about that, that was the cold plunge they were using and I think, getting into getting to those people but having this offer, that's like a win-win for them, win for you guys, win for them. It's so important and for you guys was that just giving them free product.

Yeah, depends who the person was. You know we had a. We have an expensive product. You know we don't do free product product for everyone. It's kind of a based off of what we feel is a fair exchange of deliverables on both ends those on the plunge tour we actually didn't ask for anything in return. There was like a set, like when we talked about that entourage group, we went in with like a true gifting mentality hey, we love what you provided for our life. This is a way that we can pay it forward. All we ask is that you use it and whatever that is for you to share, authentically Awesome. We're not asking anything in return here and by doing that I think we got actually 10x returns. You know you put it outside of. Now we have a much more. I think we still play that with a number of people, but we have a more structured program as well. That product goes out depending on if it's discount or actual full product trade. There's clear deliverables. I know what takes place. But yeah, I mean we didn't really ask for much in those early plunge tours. Would you recommend doing that where?

you're just doing the nothing in return type of approach if someone's search gang started, or do you think that it makes sense to have a more organized structure where you have deliverables and you have clear not expectations, but, yeah, expectations for what you expect out of those people?

If you genuinely have expectations, you need to be clear about the deliverables up front.

Yeah.

And I've learned that myself because I have gifted and I realized, oh, I wasn't gifting, I was actually expecting you to do something and I wasn't clear about that up front. So that, in turn, which isn't on them, that's on me for not being clear, and so that has that pushed us to actually create a structure around this at the scale that we've gone to. I mean, we've really done. We've really done Gifting. Product Gifting is one thing, but, like product trade is a big part of our business, and so we now have a full team that just supports that product trade.

What do you mean by that?

It means like we give a plunge and you give deliverables to us you owe us three Instagram posts Plus two stories and a newsletter shout out or whatever it is. That's really crafted per the individual. You know, based on Following size, based on frequency of you know how much content they're gonna put out. What is our like? What are we trying like each one? We try and figure out what are we trying to drive forward this person? Is this just a total brand cultural play? Like we never know if we're gonna get Any ROI on this. We just want impressions and Conversation. Cool, that's one thing. Then there's those that are and this is more, if I would say like niche, I would maybe micro influencer, but just people that are like more niche in their community or in there in their messaging. That's more. You know. Sometimes you get better ROI's from that crowd because they, they have a, they know what their message is, they know who they're following. It's not as broad of a following, it's. You know, I'm into gut health. Okay, cool, like, going and messaging to a community that only follows someone about gut health is a lot easier Than someone that is like a world-renowned actress. You know, you thought those, the people following are much different. It's easier to speak to the niche crowd because you know what they're there for, and so I think you can those are worlds. You can you play for a little more ROI and tracking and like actually understanding how many purchases or emails Did you acquire through this. So it you know, I think it's yeah, getting to know what, why you're giving it to this person, and then you know what, what the expectation is for them to deliver on.

I love that concept of Speaking to people that that are pretty niche. It's something. It's interesting like you notice it with the podcast as well that a lot of times the episodes that have the Largest number of the other of the guests following that comes and listens to the show isn't always the people with the biggest following. It's the people with, like, those true fans that, yes, like, truly believe. And I think it's that same concept there of Having people, or finding those people who are super niche, that have these fans that if they say something, that if they say to do X, they're going to do X. It's an interesting thing to find and I think that whole world of Like, the almost like an affiliate army Through this is it's such a cool concept.

I think it's also to that point of the channel that their following is big in matters. You know, like an Instagram impression is much different than a podcast download, like a podcast download is worth so much more than an impression on Instagram and you nailed it like these five like. So it it's not all apples, apples of just full-on impressions. You need to find out like what is like a, like a big press for us right now is the podcast space. We are getting into some of these larger podcasts and you know there's a you obviously can get really targeted to that community. You know who the listeners are. You know what that message is about. So you have an understanding of who's gonna listen to that pot is. Is it Joe Rogan? Is it Chris Williamson? Is it, you know, just a scientific type podcast? Is it a business podcast? The messaging could be a little more tailored to each person and you know that people that are gonna spend, that are willing to give an hour to listen to someone talk, like you know, and you get consistent numbers on a pot. It's like okay, there's real value that's being created there and we're seeing that with what podcasts. You know people that are building these, these, true, you know, doesn't even have to be a huge podcast. You getting like. You know. You start to build up 10,000 consistent downloads per episode. You get to 50 like it's real value that you can start to quantify. That to me, is much more clear than an Instagram post. So we're. I think it's important to know what. What is the big channel that they're driving from?

So what you're saying is that, like you're, you guys are doing a lot of podcast advertising.

We're getting into it, it's a it's a new channel for us. You know it's a cost. It's a cost, you know it's a more, but it is to me there's. I'm really big into spend in where I can track. You know our marketing team, our VP of marketing, knows like On the paid spend side, you have an unlimited budget and it's based on the return. Like I don't give you a number of like you can spend this. It's like, hey, if you can track and tell me what our return is, you can spend to the moon. I don't care the the brand side, which is harder to track. That has to be very clear guidelines into what we're spending, because that can balloon very quickly and we don't quite did it payback Are we getting more? Are we getting more traffic to the website. You know it's it's tough to tell. There's so many factors that go into that. So, anyways, that, which is huge for pods. You know pods can put links in, they can put discount codes. You can track it. Obviously, paid spend full trackable space. You know anything, anytime you can get emails, that's all trackable. So we're, we're big and finding those, those areas that can feel authentic and organic but come into a trackable space.

Spend where you can track. That's a yes great, great concept. That's um Super clear cut. I think that it makes for something that's Easily understood, easily understood for what you're, what you're getting and that brand stuff. Like you said, it's not easy to to figure that out like I. I'd be curious for you, like for a first-time entrepreneur what would you want to stress to them in terms of this marketing stuff? Is there one thing that, like you, just want to shake them and be like? You need to know this. I Think that's a big one. At my core, it's been what you, what you track, spend what you can track or just like Be clear on the ultimate goal of why you're doing what you're doing, you know be.

I think we in the and I'm guilty of this we've got it, we've run in and spent on areas and it's like I haven't been clear with the team of like, what are we trying to get out of this? Like, what's a win here? I think it's a win here. You know what is it. Is it an event that we get 500 people to coal-plunge at cool? If that's our win, let's be clear on that up front. Is it to actually get X number of clicks onto our website? Is it to get X number of emails? Is it to get X number of people to actually buy a plunge within this window of time? So I think that's like I'm not sure if you're going to be able to get that out of there, but that's like Understanding what a win looks like, because without that marketing can just kind of turn into you can. You can light money on fire pretty quickly. So the more clear Into what a marketing win looks like, I think is is very is a game changer.

How do you know where and I think I direct this question more towards in the early stages, because you know, when it's just you and Mike, your co-founder, there's a lot of stuff to do and there's a lot of uncertainty in terms of what you should pass off versus what you should be doing yourself, like this balancing act of trying to understand, like what is the unique things that I should be doing versus like which I'd be freelancing or bringing help in. How do you know what to pass off versus what to give energy to?

You nailed it. There's different seasons of when this is the case. Obviously, when you're starting out, you're doing everything, whether you want to do it or not. You're just. You got to get the momentum going, and Momentum's a thing. Once you feel certain levels of momentum, you got to pay attention to what gives you energy and what takes your energy, and things that Are taking your energy consistently that you don't want to get better at. There's some things that take, like take your energy, but you're like I want to figure this out, I want to, I got some time I can, I could do this. That's one thing, but if it's taking your energy, you know, fuck, I don't want to do this. That's where you have to start delegating and that's when you need to figure out to make the higher or not focus in that area anymore. And I always say, like, as a founder, as an executive, your job is is to delegate, not just for the sake of delegating, but for understanding that your time is worth. You can go any Freed up time that you have. You will 10x that time. So you need to look at it as like, if I'm freeing up time, if I'm delegating, this isn't just oh, now I have more time. It's like no, what am I? Okay, I have to 10x what I'm using this time for what I previously was using it. And so your question it's a constant dance of of is that is this something I should be working on? Is this not something I should be working on? I think a lot of. Can you let go of control? Can you understand that when you pass something off Probably going to be done it in a really good place, 80% of what you were doing it before and again, you have to accept that you obviously don't accept shitty work but first the passions going to get distilled down? The it's just not. How can I expect someone to care as much about plunges I do? I'm, you know, I started this thing, it's my baby and people care so much, so it's not that. But okay, if they're doing 80%, that thing dwindled by 20%, okay, but now I'm 10x seeing this new free time that I have, so the net is so much bigger. So, yeah, this might have come down by. We're getting less than what we originally getting out of here, but I just opened up a brand new channel that is so unexplored and driving now New opportunities for us, and then it gets to a spot of like okay, I'm going to bring someone in and they're going to execute on this area, and then we'll get to 80% and then I'm going to go into a new category. That's how I for me personally, as an entrepreneur, like I like to go. I'm a zero to one. I like to get things going, get momentum into it, and then I'm very quickly bringing people in to kind of offload and take over, and even you know, sometimes they actually do it better. To be honest, like sometimes they get momentum. I'm not like I get a started, but I'm not great with the details, I'm not overly organized, and they can kind of streamline it, make it a little more, clean it up a bit. So to me it's like how quick can you I'm big into speed like how quick can you move on and get the next next new area open within the business?

I love what you said about 10x. Like if I pass this off, will it be something? Will then the thing that I replaced that time with be something that's going to 10x? That's such an important note, like I think it's a great razor and understanding what you should give energy to.

I think it also keeps. As a founder, your job is to be at like, the 30,000 foot view, like it's truly that's the duty of it, that's the responsibility, is like being at the highest view and maintaining that. You have the highest horizon, looking out onto the company. And the faster you're in, the more you're thinking what else can I be doing? That 10X is maintains that altitude, maintains that height of where the company's at and where it's going. And you know, I get we've had the opportunity to bring in a lot of, like, high level people that have been at very great companies before and I'm you know this is a newer, please the first scale company of this size that I've had with Plunge, and they call me on that. They're like Ryan, I need you out there. Like, don't get in here. Like I need to know that someone's flying the ship and pointing us in that direction. Like and it's sometimes taken for granted as a founder that, oh, everyone's doing that. It's like, no, that's actually your job. That is at the core of what you're doing is that you are setting the horizon of where the company's going.

Doing that work on versus in.

Correct, correct, and it's you know and I think that's the challenge is sometimes it's like there's frustrating dynamics within the company. And I want to jump in and I want to solve it and there's time there are places to get in and do that. There's seasons of that. I'm not saying you don't do that, but that's where, really, you've got to bring people in and let them own their at least for me, it's like owning their space. Be like, all right, cool, I'm like you're going to work through that, I'm going to get you the resources you need and you're going to own this as almost your core business that you're going to take full ownership of.

You've been doing a lot of media stuff, like you mentioned earlier. That's one of the key aspects of your job. Have you seen a pretty substantial or significant value in like you as, like you doing the podcast yourself? Like because, for from my point of view, right Like I first found you, I listened to you on Mark Bell show and I was like dude, this guy's awesome, he's into ayahuasca and spirituality and all this shit. I was like that is, I want to support guys like that. You know, like guys that I almost feel like this kinship towards. Have you found that that has been something that's had like having this, having you as like this person and this holistic person that doesn't just talk about the cold plunge, and do you think that that's had a pretty nice size impact on the success?

I think you know it's a core thing with plunge, it's just like trying to be authentic as possible. So it's like it's the only way to be authentic. It's the only way I know about how to go about doing it. I think it was important early on, especially like a start a very early startup company. Mike and I like put our names and faces all over it. We were front and center and you know we had to build trust, like we had to be like hey, people are giving us $5,000 to a company that was just brand new. And like us being like hey, we're going to make this right if there's ever an issue or we want to. You know that was like core to us. So I think early on, yes, as we grow, I also think it's important that people know the people behind this company. As we get more and more out there and the brand is exposed, the last thing I want is this stale, just like, oh, that's I want that brand to like to. A brand is only the energy with people behind it. So you know, yes, we made a concerted choice that I would be the one that would get out and spread our messaging and talk about the things that we're into not just about my own life and yeah, that comes up sometimes but sharing what it is that this is all about to us what plunge is what this life is of creating resilience and challenging ourselves while also having fun, like it's a core thing that we do. So I think it, and there's probably some people that the message doesn't resonate with. It's like I don't you know, it's not my thing, and I get a lot of messages of people that it does resonate big time with and there whether it got them to buy the product, I don't know, but maybe it just got them to talk about co-plunging a bit or resonate with the brand. Like yeah, I get that, I get what they're doing over there. So then it's a. Again, that's a tough one to like fully articulate, but I think I don't. I really am grateful and value the time that I get to be on someone's platform and have the opportunity to share about what we're up to at Plunge, what's interesting to me, what I find valuable, you know, and people given their time to listen to 60 minutes of me sharing Like I think that is immense value.

I agree with you as well and I think it's just knowing, knowing the guys behind a brand makes you. Maybe it doesn't have a crazy effect on the person buying it, but in terms of people talking about it, it raises it significantly. I have to imagine, like people talking about people listening to your episode on a podcast and then knowing that and then either directing friends who want to buy a Coal Plunge to you because they feel this sense of energy that you have and this purpose that you have behind what you do, like just knowing that the people behind the brand or good guys is, I think it has to have a pretty significant effect on the top line.

I think it does, I think at least for me.

I know me as a consumer.

I resonate that much more when I understand where the founders are coming from and the energy behind that company. Totally. You know it's like I care. I see that they care and it's not the only reason. But, all things equal, I'm absolutely going to the company where I understand that the people behind it, what it matters to them.

So last time we spoke it was, I think, maybe a month or two after Shark Tank. And how is that panned out? Because you guys left with a deal. How did it ever come to be? Was it from now having some more hindsight? Did it make a nice impact on the brand going on the show and getting the deal and that stuff?

Yeah, I mean the brand impact's been massive. I think we still see, I mean, we still see like maybe an upwards to 5% of sales that are somewhat connected to that, where it's like people are saying this is where I learned about you guys which is massive, you know, like at scale, like it's a big number. The deal itself, you know, never transpired actually Breaking news, but yeah, we didn't end up doing the deal on the back end but the experience was incredible. I mean, just from like a like just me personally, it was so cool to be able to go out, you know show that I grew up watching, and to go on and be in that room with you know the different sharks and just personally that was, even if it never aired, it's like cool. I did that. And then at ARI, you know, the step one was like watching it with the company and how much it meant to all of our team members. And you know it wasn't just us that were representing ourselves. It's like people are, you know, given their livelihoods and their careers, to plunge and so to be able to, we had a huge watch party and being able to do that with them was super cool. And then, you know, and then itself it's like I said, it kind of fizzled out into what the deal actually transpired. But from a business standpoint there's always the win of, like I talked about this, SEO. You know you get this. As you know, shark Tank. There's this whole army of people behind Shark Tank that are writing articles and doing blogs and doing follow up. Where's plunge at now? Like you get these, these hits that are constantly happening. You get the re-air on CMBC or MSNB, whatever one of the channels, every three to four months usually, so you get some increase there. The YouTube video shoots up with Robert Plunging so and it's just become a part of our story. Now you know guys out of the garage launching the product to go in our Shark Tank, like kind of this entrepreneurial journey. But you know, as of late I would say it's less, it's more of a something to reminisce on.

Totally.

This other company.

Yeah, it definitely adds to the story significantly. Have you guys been taking outside money?

We haven't to this point. Yeah, it's been. You know we've built it bootstrapped and we've done that. We've done that through. You know we create. Early on we were building them. We had a lead time so we kind of played our own bank, like we were able to get cash up front. We buy, you know, we build for we sell them and we get the cash and then we buy enough to buy eight and we just kind of did it that way and you just, you know, hit the scale. So, yeah, we haven't, we haven't raised to date. We're in a great position. It is something that we're exploring and we're trying to. You know, there's pros and cons to that of something beautiful about building the company where there's you know, we're in full control of it Every decision that we make is not some outside voice that's dictating anything. And you know, I think we're exploring some opportunity to potentially bring some on, to even kind of take us to the next level. But we're in a beautiful position where we get to kind of, you know, lead those talks as opposed to like we need it to go to the next place.

So yeah, I mean it puts you in such a great situation later on, like you were saying, kind of puts you in the driver's seat and allows you for, if you were to want to do that exit or whatever it may be, puts you in a really, really cool position.

Yeah, it's, it's. I've never really like I've had angel investors in my previous company, but again it was more of a family and friends round. So I've never had never gone like a VC route of what that looks like, or even like a just a larger investment structure. So, learning a lot about that and what that actually means and entails and yeah, it's definitely a it's a foreign world to me.

When are we going to get a float tank plunge? Stay tuned, hey, hey, hey, that's amazing. I still need to do it, dude. I still need to try the float tank.

You never floated.

I never floated.

Where's home for you.

I am Right now. I'm in Austin, texas, for about about two more weeks and then I'm heading back to New Jersey, so right outside New York City. So there's some places I got. I got to explore.

Yeah, and then there's what's the spot in Austin there?

They actually have our plunges.

Yeah, they're over, I'll text it to you. Yeah, I should know this. Anyways, totally draw a blank, no worries.

So I think that the you know a lot of people like they. They use books like, especially like younger guys who haven't really taken the leap of faith yet, to like start something. They use books as mental masturbation at times, like all this self-help, self-development, business books that they're reading like. In the grand scheme of things it's, it's mental masturbation in a way. But have you found that there's been some really helpful books for you to expedite things or give you an outsized return or resources?

Yeah, I think some books that I've read are great, but I'm not a huge book guy Like I'm definitely like up the Naval camp where I'll read a book for 30 pages and I'll put it down. Yeah, I'll read it Like I'm in. I'm probably reading eight books right now and I'm halfway through all of it. You know it's like I pick them up at different times. If you look at my room there's totally. I usually use reading to actually like calm my mind more from big into like historical fiction or just history books in general. That's usually what I'm like reading and taking my time in resources man I think. For me and it's still, I guess, especially when I was younger, my like early 20s to me it was like how interesting can I get? In the sense, and that was usually through travel or just like experiences, like I would just do things Because it was fun, but also I was doing it because I want to be interesting, I want to bring. That was what I thought I could bring value. I couldn't really bring experience like from a business standpoint or anything, but I could bring this interesting life experience and that got me into a lot of cool conversations with people. You know you start to get with people that have achieved incredible things. Where I'm now bringing value is like oh shit, you did that. Like you, you just went and walked the community Santiago or you went to the jungles of Peru. Like that became interesting. So I think you know my sitting on, not that I'm so wise person, but to my, the younger self, it's like do whatever you can to get interesting and get yourself in conversations that bring value, because then you're going to those are the places that you'll learn and pick things up.

That's amazing note. Sorry to cut you off, but how can I become more interesting? What a great question.

It's, it's, it's the one. Yeah, it's changed my life, I think. Now where I'm at like, resources I use you know one resource that I use that is is costly, but for me it's been like a drop in the bucket is this app called intro, and it's basically a. I think their mission is like make unaccessible people accessible. So you can go on the intro app and you have the founders of everything that are on there founders of Reddit, founders of every CPG company, like all sorts of people that have, you know, built nine figure billion dollar companies and they're all just sitting there and you can just go book a call with them. And you can book a 15 minute call. You look at 30 minute calling like a 60 minute call, and I've used that app a handful of times and again it's expensive, like depending on the person, but there's a cost, like there's a cost to it. But I have brought things that I am stumped in, you know, like what decision do we make? Like we're at this new precipice as a company? Mike and I have thought it through, we've talked to other people and we just experience, like nothing beats experience, and so we would. You know, we'll pay 500 bucks to have a 15 minute call with someone, but we come very prepared. And they're pitched down of like how to bring them up to speed within two minutes of what the situation is, and most every time they've all gotten it and they've been like Okay, this is, if I were you, this is you know, I would go this route. Oh, you're thinking about doing that. I would not do that for this reason. I would leave with like got it cool. That would have been another three months, we would have spun our wheels on that and now we're clear on it. So I think that app is a real resource if you use it correctly. For you know, I've never thought after being on it. I've never thought about the money that I spent on it. So that's a huge resource and we've talked about it on the previous pod but, like psychedelics is still a consistent tool that I'm working with and different moments throughout the year. So, yeah, so it's. You know it's always. I'm always finding and looking for for new resources into what I can, what I can utilize.

The psychedelics is a very interesting note from a business standpoint because the third person point of view or this birds eye point of view that you get from being like this disconnected point of view, from being on psychedelics Obviously I haven't started a business yet, but the I have to imagine that that disconnect breeds so much clarity in in terms of next moves and maybe where some bottlenecks are in the company. Like you get that third person point of view and you're like, oh shit, this is what this, what's wrong with this, or whatever the issue may be.

Yeah, for me it's really like emotional release valves. Yeah, like it's like for me. You know you get caught, I get I'm in the momentum of the daily, I'm in a grind, I'm working and I don't quite recognize something I'm carrying. So I'll give you an example. I was on a trip A couple months ago and girlfriend and I did a lighter dose of mushrooms, but enough to go in, and you know we had our experience and you know we. It was a time that we actually worked through a lot with our relationship. But one of the things that have been blocking me was I had seemed obvious, but I was not privy to it. I was taking, you know, forever. I get a lot of kind emails and people messaging me and then I get some messages from people that are just you know, some are valid and they're frustrated with something that happened on their product or their delivery or somehow, and they find me over social media or something. And I get messages and part of the gig, I get it. I'm not not here for sympathy, but I carry it sometimes and I wasn't realizing it and I kind of let some of these build up where I was feeling like and it just hit me like, oh shit, like you are not. You're heavier than what you're leading on to. You just think you need to keep moving on and you haven't. Like I just cried, I just like I feel bad, like I feel I'm sad, I like it was heavy and anyways, it was just like. I talked about a release valve. It was like came out of that evening I was like, oh, like I'm just lighter and like, did it help me with any huge decision for the company? No, not in that moment. But it made me lighter that I could actually see clear and be more comfortable in the decisions that I was making, as opposed to kind of being trying to operate from this place that I wasn't really subconsciously recognizing that I was going through some you know where I just it was kind of hurting you know it wasn't honest to it. It sounds, you know, that's a huge part, you know. So I think it's more of I take it and I kind of disconnect from like sometimes I make the gravity of the business so big, you know, and it's like, yeah, we are dealing with big challenges and it's impacting a lot of people, but you kind of get even a bigger view and it's like it's not it's never as wild as you think it is which is just a like system can regulate. I feel more calm, I can be more at ease and meetings, I could be more of help and of service to employees. You know, it's like shit matters, like that's my job and so like that's that's where I found the most benefit for psychedelics, for me as it relates to work.

I love that. I just had a psychotherapist on the pod and we talked about some of the issues with stoicism and his whole thing was like yeah, this concept of control your emotions is great. But like how, how are you, how can you not be so reactive in life? And you know, he kind of alluded to what you just said. But I think the psychedelics just greatly assist in making that visible.

I mean, at the end of the day, it's you're denying your humanity. Look, if you like, our emotions are part of being human. I don't want them to control me. I don't want to lash out. I do want to be in control as much as I can be of them, but they're there and to deny them, which I've done at times, is a major. You know, psychedelics are the which I find to be some of the most truthful things, or at least most in light, like shining a light into the unknown or the dark caverns of myself. That usually is what comes up, like, oh you're, you have not processed this emotion, you've denied this emotion, you have not grieved this, you've not dealt with this resentment, you've not dealt with this anger. Like, at the end of the day, they're there as much as we're denying them. They're running the show. So it's, you know it's. It's really a I don't think it's a conscious dishonesty, but I think there's a blend that has to take place of, you know, being overly stoic or being stoic at all times. With what are your methods to integrate those emotions that I know are still showing up in certain places?

That self awareness that you have and I think I'm putting words in your mouth, but I think a large part of that stems from psychedelics and you're clearly a person who's very self aware and very aware in general, and I have to imagine that that has a big impact on the success of your business.

Yeah, I mean, I think I'm probably like I don't have like a reaction when I'm thinking of myself as self, it's like because I actually don't think I'm just human. So I actually kind of downplay that. I think it just helps a reflection. And like you know, it's a part of the. It sets the tone. I think it allows what it does. I think it allows a culture that people are open to reflection and, and you know, we can be honest and own mistakes and move forward, and it's, I think that's ultimately what it comes down to, which helps out the business, make some more unified team, more cohesive team.

So yeah, helps you take some ownership, which in turn makes your employees happier to be employees with you. You know, like that person who blames everything else on on their employees Isn't somebody that a lot of people want to work for. So, like implying that awareness to realize like I'm kind of complicit in this, in this issue as well, just allows you to. It seems like the a kinder and a better boss.

Yeah, it's I mean, like that's the cool part about running your business is like I'm fully complicit. Everything that's going on like it's like it's a full ownership in some degree and I need it's my job to figure out. Where am I the owner of this, where am I complicit? Because every piece to it that I lock out these doors in my office and if something's not going the way I want, it's like I got, like it's what it comes down to. I got to figure it out. How am I participating this? How can I help find a solution here? So that, to me, is the coolest part about Running your own company if you were to go back, and how?

how old are you when you First started plunge?

when I first started plunge, I was only Three plus years ago, yeah, so I was like 34 when I started plunge.

Damn, you're 37 and I'm looking younger than that. So if, if today at 37, you were to go have a conversation with yourself at 32 and you were going to kind of tell her the conversation more towards this business advice, what? What would you tell that person first getting started? Or a lot of times when, when I Give this question to people, they'll say I wouldn't tell him anything because of I'm happy the way things have worked out already. But if it was somebody like you at 32 looking to start a business and you wanted to stress to them All this stuff that you've learned in this three plus years of of running plunge, would there be? What would that conversation look like? What would be the key things that you would want to stress to them before they started this pursuit?

Yeah, there's a number of things I think, depending on you know what. There's so many factors I'd want to know about that 32 year old to actually give like I don't think there's a carbon copy of you. Yeah, I think. So. You know, I'd look back at myself at 32. I already launched capital float, so I had launched a company. I was, you know, at a time where I was More I was successful, also young and felt very free and I was a lot of good amount of free time and I was traveling and exploring. So that was where I was at at 32 and I was very like, almost anxious to like start my next thing, like I'm like it was. I launched a CBD company Right around then and, you know, probably got into it for not my core value reasons. I kind of convinced myself I did, but I wasn't actually that passionate about it. There's a business that's since has closed up, it's not a company anymore, and so what I would say to that is and I would not like have not done it because I built some relation, like our current VP of tech at our company was a business partner I had in that company I would just say you never know what you're building like, honestly, like you don't know, like looking around your current life, you don't know what that's, what seeds you're planning now that are gonna play out long term, and so and I mean that too of like my co-founder, mike, like I honestly think plunge started Seven years ago, the day I met him and we were just friends and we built this relationship and we weren't planning this mastermind of how we're gonna build a company together, but it took us seven years of building a relation. It took us we were building a relationship five years before we launched plunge. So once we started plunge, it was the fastest thing we did ever, but it was five years in theory that I really think we were learning to trust him. He was learning to trust me. So to this 32 year old self, as a long-winded answer of you know, you don't Be conscientious of what you, whatever you're working on at that time and it might not be the the thing, but everything that you're doing in that moment is planning a seed for the future thing. So be sure that you're working on and investing your time and shit that you care about and that is fun and interesting to you. That's it. Yeah, it's an interesting dynamic you have with your co-founder as co-CEO, it's not?

something. It's not titled you here too often and I have to imagine from an outsider's perspective it seems like there is. It's not the easiest dance to balance. It's not the easiest dance to balance.

And why I know it works is because my answer is like I can't imagine it. Not, I can't imagine anyone that's a CEO solo To me. That just like Seems so challenging. Like to know, like why it works for us. Again, core reasons we trust each other like through and through. I know at the core, like who he is as a human, like he's a human, like as a person with his character, and what interests us are different. So it's like rarely are we super opinionated on one thing. Nice, he's opinionated. I can really step back and be like cool sounds great man, run with that and vice versa. So again, I don't think it works. That's probably why it doesn't work for everyone, but for us, and I think if you can make it work from the bottom of your heart and I think, if you can make, it work, from my vantage point and experience, like it's a superpower.

I think that it's so incredible, like the, the differences in temperament and personality, like how perfectly it seems like it's it's played off of each other. It's, it's really, really beautiful.

Yeah, we're, very we're. You could probably pull a lot of our employees and ask the difference between Mike and I. We are very aware of the differences and you know we work to harmonize that awesome.

Well, ryan, is there anything we haven't talked about today, that Is on your mind or that you want to talk about?

No, man, this is fun, this was. I got into more of the business that I really ever get to, so appreciate the questions and, yeah, always fun coming on and catching up with you man.

Yeah, likewise, man it's. I've always been so impressed with you and needed to have you back on, because that episode 19, it was my first ever conversation that I was like, oh shit, like this is, this is, this is why I do this thing. It was. It was one of those moments that, like I was, I was on cloud nine after and Just so appreciate you taking that time 14 months ago and you doing it again today.

Awesome. That's cool to see your Everything you're working on and what episode you on now. What is this gonna?

be. I think this is gonna be 95. Hell yeah yeah, good to see, really. Thank you, best of luck to you and gonna continue to be following you and hopefully I can make Make enough money in these next couple months to buy myself a plunge, and that's one of my goals. I it's like all I feel like all I need in my life. I Need, I need a sauna and I need a cold plunge. So I have the company now to you. I know that I'm gonna get it from. So I got that goal. I got that goal right there.

So it's gonna be my first purchase. Oh, hit me up, you're like a ready hell yeah. Cool.

Looking forward to that. All right, ron, we'll have a great rest of your day. Appreciate you.